Time and Regional settings are US based, independent of settings

[alpie]

During installation I've chosen timezone Europe, Amsterdam. After installation I see the clock in the system bar indeed in European format, i.e. 24h format, e.g. 21:48. However the date above is in typical US format, which is not used in Europe: M/DD/YY, e.g. 3/27/25. I expect 27-03-25 in the Netherlands. I try to change this. I right-click on Clock > Set Time Format. I got into the Regional & Language page where I have to change every single detail to adopt to Europe standards, e.g. Time, Numbers (not 1,000 but 1.000), Paper size (not Letter but A4). Why is there not ONE regional setting like in Kubuntu that changes ALL these settings for me?

Besides this, it doesn't work correctly: I still see the date in US format. Also the time in the default widget on the desktop is still in US format (e.g. 09 48 PM).

[Eadwine Rose]

According to the forum rules (please read): Please provide full Quick System Info, use copy for forum button, no edits.
LiveUSB version is OK if needed.

[alpie]

Code: Select all

System:
  Kernel: 6.1.0-32-amd64 [6.1.129-1] arch: x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc v: 12.2.0
    parameters: BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-6.1.0-32-amd64 root=UUID=<filter> ro quiet splash
  Desktop: KDE Plasma v: 5.27.5 wm: kwin_x11 vt: 7 dm: SDDM Distro: MX-23.5_KDE_x64 Libretto Jan
    12 2025 base: Debian GNU/Linux 12 (bookworm)
Machine:
  Type: Laptop System: HP product: HP ProBook 450 G6 v: SBKPF serial: <superuser required> Chassis:
    type: 10 serial: <superuser required>
  Mobo: HP model: 8538 v: KBC Version 51.31.00 serial: <superuser required> UEFI: HP
    v: R71 Ver. 01.26.00 date: 09/24/2023
Battery:
  ID-1: BAT0 charge: 38.3 Wh (100.0%) condition: 38.3/45.2 Wh (84.7%) volts: 12.8 min: 11.6
    model: Hewlett-Packard Primary type: Li-ion serial: <filter> status: full cycles: 117
CPU:
  Info: model: Intel Core i3-8145U bits: 64 type: MT MCP arch: Whiskey Lake gen: core 8 level: v3
    note: check built: 2018 process: Intel 14nm family: 6 model-id: 0x8E (142) stepping: 0xB (11)
    microcode: 0xF6
  Topology: cpus: 1x cores: 2 tpc: 2 threads: 4 smt: enabled cache: L1: 128 KiB
    desc: d-2x32 KiB; i-2x32 KiB L2: 512 KiB desc: 2x256 KiB L3: 4 MiB desc: 1x4 MiB
  Speed (MHz): avg: 475 high: 700 min/max: 400/3900 scaling: driver: intel_pstate
    governor: powersave cores: 1: 700 2: 400 3: 400 4: 400 bogomips: 18399
  Flags: avx avx2 ht lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3 vmx
  Vulnerabilities:
  Type: gather_data_sampling mitigation: Microcode
  Type: itlb_multihit status: KVM: VMX disabled
  Type: l1tf status: Not affected
  Type: mds mitigation: Clear CPU buffers; SMT vulnerable
  Type: meltdown status: Not affected
  Type: mmio_stale_data mitigation: Clear CPU buffers; SMT vulnerable
  Type: reg_file_data_sampling status: Not affected
  Type: retbleed mitigation: IBRS
  Type: spec_rstack_overflow status: Not affected
  Type: spec_store_bypass mitigation: Speculative Store Bypass disabled via prctl
  Type: spectre_v1 mitigation: usercopy/swapgs barriers and __user pointer sanitization
  Type: spectre_v2 mitigation: IBRS; IBPB: conditional; STIBP: conditional; RSB filling;
    PBRSB-eIBRS: Not affected; BHI: Not affected
  Type: srbds mitigation: Microcode
  Type: tsx_async_abort status: Not affected
Graphics:
  Device-1: Intel WhiskeyLake-U GT2 [UHD Graphics 620] vendor: Hewlett-Packard driver: i915
    v: kernel arch: Gen-9.5 process: Intel 14nm built: 2016-20 ports: active: eDP-1
    empty: DP-1,HDMI-A-1,HDMI-A-2 bus-ID: 00:02.0 chip-ID: 8086:3ea0 class-ID: 0300
  Device-2: Cheng Uei Precision Industry (Foxlink) HP Wide Vision HD Integrated Webcam type: USB
    driver: uvcvideo bus-ID: 1-2:3 chip-ID: 05c8:03cb class-ID: 0e02
  Display: x11 server: X.Org v: 1.21.1.7 with: Xwayland v: 22.1.9 compositor: kwin_x11 driver: X:
    loaded: modesetting unloaded: fbdev,vesa dri: iris gpu: i915 display-ID: :0 screens: 1
  Screen-1: 0 s-res: 1920x1080 s-dpi: 96 s-size: 508x285mm (20.00x11.22") s-diag: 582mm (22.93")
  Monitor-1: eDP-1 model: AU Optronics 0x23ed built: 2018 res: 1920x1080 hz: 60 dpi: 142
    gamma: 1.2 size: 344x194mm (13.54x7.64") diag: 395mm (15.5") ratio: 16:9 modes: 1920x1080
  API: OpenGL v: 4.6 Mesa 24.2.8-1mx23ahs renderer: Mesa Intel UHD Graphics 620 (WHL GT2)
    direct-render: Yes
Audio:
  Device-1: Intel Cannon Point-LP High Definition Audio vendor: Hewlett-Packard
    driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel alternate: snd_soc_skl,snd_sof_pci_intel_cnl bus-ID: 00:1f.3
    chip-ID: 8086:9dc8 class-ID: 0403
  API: ALSA v: k6.1.0-32-amd64 status: kernel-api tools: alsamixer,amixer
  Server-1: PipeWire v: 1.0.0 status: active with: 1: pipewire-pulse status: active
    2: wireplumber status: active 3: pipewire-alsa type: plugin 4: pw-jack type: plugin
    tools: pactl,pw-cat,pw-cli,wpctl
Network:
  Device-1: Intel Cannon Point-LP CNVi [Wireless-AC] driver: iwlwifi v: kernel modules: wl
    bus-ID: 00:14.3 chip-ID: 8086:9df0 class-ID: 0280
  IF: wlan0 state: up mac: <filter>
  Device-2: Realtek RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet vendor: Hewlett-Packard
    driver: r8169 v: kernel pcie: gen: 1 speed: 2.5 GT/s lanes: 1 port: 3000 bus-ID: 01:00.0
    chip-ID: 10ec:8168 class-ID: 0200
  IF: eth0 state: down mac: <filter>
Bluetooth:
  Device-1: Intel Bluetooth 9460/9560 Jefferson Peak (JfP) type: USB driver: btusb v: 0.8
    bus-ID: 1-10:6 chip-ID: 8087:0aaa class-ID: e001
  Report: hciconfig ID: hci0 rfk-id: 2 state: down bt-service: N/A rfk-block: hardware: no
    software: yes address: <filter>
  Info: acl-mtu: 1021:4 sco-mtu: 96:6 link-policy: rswitch sniff link-mode: peripheral accept
Drives:
  Local Storage: total: 238.47 GiB used: 25.59 GiB (10.7%)
  SMART Message: Unable to run smartctl. Root privileges required.
  ID-1: /dev/nvme0n1 maj-min: 259:0 vendor: Western Digital model: PC SN520 SDAPNUW-256G-1006
    size: 238.47 GiB block-size: physical: 512 B logical: 512 B speed: 15.8 Gb/s lanes: 2 type: SSD
    serial: <filter> rev: 20110006 temp: 29.9 C scheme: GPT
Partition:
  ID-1: / raw-size: 48.83 GiB size: 47.76 GiB (97.81%) used: 12.79 GiB (26.8%) fs: ext4
    dev: /dev/nvme0n1p3 maj-min: 259:3
  ID-2: /boot/efi raw-size: 1000 MiB size: 998 MiB (99.80%) used: 7.2 MiB (0.7%) fs: vfat
    dev: /dev/nvme0n1p1 maj-min: 259:1
Swap:
  Kernel: swappiness: 15 (default 60) cache-pressure: 100 (default)
  ID-1: swap-1 type: partition size: 3.91 GiB used: 0 KiB (0.0%) priority: -2 dev: /dev/nvme0n1p2
    maj-min: 259:2
Sensors:
  System Temperatures: cpu: 39.0 C pch: 38.0 C mobo: N/A
  Fan Speeds (RPM): N/A
Repos:
  Packages: pm: dpkg pkgs: 2554 libs: 1359 tools: apt,apt-get,aptitude,nala pm: rpm pkgs: 0
    pm: flatpak pkgs: 0
  No active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debian-stable-updates.list
    1: deb http://deb.debian.org/debian bookworm-updates main contrib non-free non-free-firmware
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debian.list
    1: deb http://deb.debian.org/debian bookworm main contrib non-free non-free-firmware
    2: deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security bookworm-security main contrib non-free non-free-firmware
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/dropbox.list
    1: deb [arch=i386,amd64 signed-by=/etc/apt/keyrings/dropbox.asc] http://linux.dropbox.com/debian bookworm main
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/google-chrome.list
    1: deb [arch=amd64] https://dl.google.com/linux/chrome/deb/ stable main
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/mx.list
    1: deb http://nl.mxrepo.com/mx/repo/ bookworm main non-free
    2: deb http://nl.mxrepo.com/mx/repo/ bookworm ahs
Info:
  Processes: 233 Uptime: 3m wakeups: 2 Memory: 15.5 GiB used: 2.55 GiB (16.5%) Init: SysVinit
  v: 3.06 runlevel: 5 default: graphical tool: systemctl Compilers: gcc: 12.2.0 alt: 12
  Client: shell wrapper v: 5.2.15-release inxi: 3.3.26
Boot Mode: UEFI

[alpie]

Update on my first observation: when I change the time format in the Regional & Language page it changes the time format in the taskbar, not the date format. Also not the time format of the time widget on the desktop. After a reboot however, both date in the taskbar and widget on desktop are updated to European setting.

On the login page however I still see the US time format. Is there a way to change this, and preferably change the default for ALL users on this machine since when I am in Europe, my fellow users on this machine will be too ...

[fehlix]

During installation I've chosen timezone Europe, Amsterdam. After installation I see the clock in the system bar indeed in European format, i.e. 24h format, e.g. 21:48. However the date above is in typical US format, which is not used in Europe: M/DD/YY, e.g. 3/27/25. I expect 27-03-25 in the Netherlands. I try to change this. I right-click on Clock > Set Time Format. I got into the Regional & Language page where I have to change every single detail to adopt to Europe standards, e.g. Time, Numbers (not 1,000 but 1.000), Paper size (not Letter but A4). Why is there not ONE regional setting like in Kubuntu that changes ALL these settings for me?

Besides this, it doesn't work correctly: I still see the date in US format. Also the time in the default widget on the desktop is still in US format (e.g. 09 48 PM).

Language related display formats of units and times, are not based on timezone settings but on locale "Regional" settings.
So when you Live-booted from the ISO/USB, and have kept en_US English as system locale, you will also get en_US English
display format of time and measurement units and default papersize to "letter".
Instead, better approach, simply adjust your system locale settings before you run the installer, in case you want
different settings for time/units not based on system LANG=en_US.utf8 (in case you kept en_US as default lang).
E.g run the tool "MX Locale" and adjust LC_TIME and any of the other LC_* (locale categories) settings to the locale you prefer to use.

The one "big" exception from the locale defaults is the time format shown within the panel clock.

It's hard-codeded on the LiveBooted system within the user-template under /etc/skel
/etc/skel/.config/plasma-org.kde.plasma.desktop-appletsrc
where a line :

Code: Select all

use24hFormat=0

will make the time-format shown as 12h within the LiveBooted system, regardless
what LANG locale was selected at the LiveBoot menu.

The installer will change the line within both .config/plasma-org.kde.plasma.desktop-appletsrc
under /etc/skel/.config/plasma-org.kde.plasma.desktop-appletsrc
and also under users $HOME/.config/plasma-org.kde.plasma.desktop-appletsrc
according to the selection made with the installer to use either 12h or 24h display.
and would change this for 24h time display selection to

Code: Select all

use24hFormat=2

I do see here some improvements within MX defaults for KDE/plasma, like changing this line to
within .config/plasma-org.kde.plasma.desktop-appletsrc to

Code: Select all

use24hFormat=1

which will make the time/date format for both time and date with the panel,
based on locale setting (i.e. Regional settings). Which would "fix"
the time/date format displayed within the panel-clock when booted Live

Maybe also an adjustment of the installer, to allow not only to select
*12h
*24h
but also
* default (based on regional "locale" settings, and make this pre-selected, so user have not to select anything.

So for your already installed system, run mx-locale and adjust accordingly,
Note: Any manually made selections by the user within KDE's Regional settings wont be changed,
by system wide settings made with "MX Locale". Maybe keep only system wide made settings and
reset user made once.

[alpie]

Thank you for your extensive assistance! I do not recall exactly what options I had (and changed) during install. Indeed it would be helpful if you could select a language and a region during install, which is used to set all the system wide locales. I think K/Ubuntu takes this approach since I never had to change locales after installation.

I launched "MX Locale". It looks like I have to change 10 categories manually. Say I want language = en_US but all locales set to nl_NL. Is the easiest way to set language to nl_NL, press "Set all locale categories to current language" and then change language to en_US again?
And is there a way to reset user made changes on beforehand, so all locale changes are applied to all users? (I can remove $HOME/.config/plasma-org.kde.plasma.desktop-appletsrc but this file contains more settings than just locales).

[fehlix]

Thank you for your extensive assistance! I do not recall exactly what options I had (and changed) during install. Indeed it would be helpful if you could select a language and a region during install, which is used to set all the system wide locales. I think K/Ubuntu takes this approach since I never had to change locales after installation.

The way I have described is for MX Linux not for Kubuntu.

I launched "MX Locale". It looks like I have to change 10 categories manually. Say I want language = en_US but all locales set to nl_NL. Is the easiest way to set language to nl_NL, press "Set all locale categories to current language" and then change language to en_US again?

To be clear. Normally a user would have just one locale set by LANG all LC-* locale categories will be set automatically to the same value.
Or with other words, with an example of LC_TIME:
If LC_TIME is unset the value of LANG is used for LC_TIME. And "MX Locale" tool was made with having in mind, that for most users just one value LANG is the usual
settings. So if you want to adjust locale categories (LC_*) settings, you would adjust the one you want to change.

For cases where Debian does not provide a combined locale e.g. like en_NL.UTF-8, which would be something like LANG=en_US with most LC-* categories based on nl_NL.UTF-8, the user can either create it's on locale definition like en_NL, which does not exist in Debian,
or set manually all LC*-categories to nl_NL except LC_MESSAGES so it takes the default from LANG=en_US.UTF-8.
This approach would solve most locale related issues, for a combined en_US and nl_NL locale combo,
but not all:
When LC_MESSAGES have been kept as LANG=en_US.UTF-8, it would make most translation strings be
shown in English. But some translations are not provided with LC_MESSAGES settings, like translation for day and month names.
They are defined directly within LC_TIME definition, so to say hard-coded within the locale definition of LC_TIME.
Which means having LC_TIME set to nl_NL.UTF-8, you would get proper nl_NL formatting,
but also translation strings for day and month would be shown in Dutch not in English.
Also if you want to keep English translation for day and month, but also a NL-date/time format, you may consider using
an English based locale for LC_TIME e.g just C.UTF-8 or en_IE.UTF-8 (Ireland).
But you would need to check which of those do provide a proper NL-formatting of the displayed date/time,
and also begin of week monday or sunday maybe sometimes important.

And is there a way to reset user made changes on beforehand, so all locale changes are applied to all users? (I can remove $HOME/.config/plasma-org.kde.plasma.desktop-appletsrc but this file contains more settings than just locales).

For the panel clock: Easiest right click on clock and select "Configuer digital clock"
and set to regional instead of 24h, would do.
All other manual selected user locale settings are set within:

Code: Select all

~/.config/plasma-localerc

To reset:
Just remove the saved regional settings file:

Code: Select all

rm ~/.config/plasma-localerc 

and logout/login.
Note: There can be an additional "conflict" with those regional plasma locale settings:
E.g. you have chosen en_NL.UTF-8 with KDE/Plasma regional settings for LC_TIME,
you will find within ~/.config/plasma-localerc a line
LC_TIME=en_NL.UTF-8
But b/c there is no source definition of that combo locale en_NL, and as this settings is invalid and it will create further issues.
So better stay away from the troublesome "Regional Settings" within KDE/Plasma and use only "MX Locale" to select locale settings.

For default papersize in case it is set to "letter" size based on en_US, b/c you have chosen en_US at LiveBoot,
do change system-wide to "a4" by changing the content of /etc/papersize e.g with

Code: Select all

echo "a4" | sudo tee /etc/papersize

HTH

[markol]

You can manually edit the /etc/detault/locale file to something like this (sl_SI is obviously slovenian)

Code: Select all

LANG=en_GB.UTF-8
LC_TIME=sl_SI.UTF-8
LC_PAPER=sl_SI.UTF-8
LC_COLLATE=sl_SI.UTF-8
LC_MONETARY=sl_SI.UTF-8
LC_NAME=sl_SI.UTF-8
LC_ADDRESS=sl_SI.UTF-8
LC_TELEPHONE=sl_SI.UTF-8
LC_MEASUREMENT=sl_SI.UTF-8
LC_NUMERIC=sl_SI.UTF-8

... or just use the Locale tool from the MX Tools