Call This a Respin of a Respin? LXQT on AV Linux

[macronus]

In what turned into a minor flame-fest with the thread 'What about a regular MX Linux with AV Linux config?', somebody pointed out that one can install a different desktop environment if one one wants to. Would that make this a respin of a respin?

The comment made this to look to be a simple thing but the devil is always in the details. I won't go into detail all of the troubles I went through to trying to get the lxqt desktop environment with the kwin-x11 window manager working on AV Linux. Irregularities when adding a user that already existed within a previous Linux installation (Always start fresh). Default icons not being missing so much as being transparent from what I could see.

I did get LXQT to work with AV Linux though and here's a walk-through:

Using 'MX Package Installer' I installed 'kwin-x11' while checking 'Also Install "Recommended" Packages', found near the bottom of the window, to enable this option.

Note that doing this will remove the packages 'pipewire-setup-mx' and 'pipewire-alsa' because the MX package installer will insist on installing some pulseaudio packages conflicting with pipewire. At least this is what was indicated to me when I examined the log file '/var/log/apt/history.log'. This was one of the landmines I stepped on in this learning process.

(Re)Installing 'pipewire-setup-mx' will undo this while also reinstalling 'pipewire-alsa' and uninstalling 'pulseaudio' and 'pulseaudio-module-gsettings'. I can't remember making any changes for that option 'Also Install "Recommended" Packages' nor can I tell you if this even matters.

Next, install 'lxqt' while once again having 'Also Install "Recommended" Packages' enabled. When logging into lxqt for the first time, you are asked to choose a window manager. There will be two choices listed as being 'kwin'. I think the first one corresponds to 'kwin' while the second one corresponds to 'kwin_x11'. I don't know what the difference may be. The third choice available will be 'xfwm4'. Your choice can be changed afterwards within 'LXQT Session Settings'.

The curious thing about doing this is that this will also install the xfwm4 window manager and the Plasma desktop for both X11 and for Wayland. I don't know if Wayland is broken or if it was incompletely installed within this instance but I ended up uninstalling this.

For those who don't already know, you can choose your desired desktop environment from within the log-in screen. Tne choice will be found on clicking on the requisite icon at the top of the screen towards the upper-rigth-hand corner.

When I tried to log into Plasma/Wayland, I got nothing but a black completely useless screen. Having seen this kind of thing before, the way out I've used was the keyboard command <Ctrl>+<Alt>+<F3> to drop out of any desktop environment and bring up a full-screen command-line interface. The keyboard command 'sudo shutdown -r now' will reboot your PC after which you can once again log into one of the other desktop environments.

Being that I only want the lxqt desktop and not inclined to do further wrestling with AV Linux to get Plasma/Wayland working, I uninstalled 'plasma-workspace-wayland', 'kwin-wayland' and 'xwayland' just to remove the possibility for accidentally logging into the Plasma/Wayland desktop environment. I have no idea why the Plasma desktop environment was installed at all.

Those of you reading this whom are more knowledgeable about this are welcomed to chime in. Just what is the current status for Wayland on MX Linux?

[dreamer]

Just what is the current status for Wayland on MX Linux?

As far as I know KDE/Plasma is usable with Wayland. All other desktop environments are probably work in progress. Gnome can also be used with Wayland, but you have to make sure wayland-utils gets installed.

[AVLinux]

Hi,

Interesting... TBH I've never tried LXQT, I had a really good LXDE Respin based on MX-21 for a while but then I became beguiled by Enlightenment and most of my friends don't like my new girlfriend...

Seriously though I'd rather people install another DE than go on and on about how much they hate Enlightenment so future AV Linux will have it's utilities more self-supported and open to working with multiple DE's. I'm sticking with E but maybe if XFCE4 or LXQT are easier to drop in it will be a better experience for everyone.. I would very strongly suggest keeping 'terminology' installed because all of the numerous AVL File Manager actions are geared to use terminology as the default terminal..

[AVLinux]

@macronus

Not sure if you're aware but a newer LXQT is in the MX Test Repo, I wonder if it would cause the same issues with forcing PulseAudio..? I'll admit to being a little intrigued with LXQT now but I vowed to never again test a secondary DE on my development box after KDE Plasma left quite a mess. I don't have a Virtual Machine setup currently to test these type of things..

@dreamer What wisdom do you have to share from your LXQT build? I think I like the idea of Kwin over xfwm... Seems Kwin would be a better fit with QT stuff I have never been super impressed with xfwm..

[dreamer]

The LXQt 1.2 metapackage from Debian will bring in unnecessary Debian branding that slightly interferes with MX visuals in GRUB etc. I haven't had any problems related to PulseAudio. Those packages were never on my system since MX-23 uses PipeWire by default.

Installing LXQt 1.3 packages from MX test repo is a better choice than the Debian version. You only get those packages you select. Start with a "clean" base. I like the MX Xfce iso, but other people prefer something more minimal. You could start with AVL, since you are familiar with what's included on that iso.

LXQt was designed to be "lightweight" without a lot of dependencies. So I think it's best to adhere to that philosophy when using that desktop. If you don't like Xfwm you can try Fluxbox, Openbox, Compiz, Marco from MATE or any other window manager. antiX has several window managers (that I haven't used). Since you use Enlightenment, maybe that would be the right window manager and you don't need to install another wm if you start with vanilla AVL.

[AVLinux]

Hmmm,

Well I did a lot of years with Openbox and I don't need to go back, before annoying AVL Users with Enlightenment the first AVL release based on MX-21 had XFCE4 with Openbox w/obmenu generator and it didn't take long for the torches and pitchforks to come out... I wonder if Enlightenment would be a potential Window Manager that would appear as available to LXQT...? That might be a pretty cool combo..

[dreamer]

@macronus
You seem to have run into crazy dependency problems. I don't think I can help with those.

@AVLinux
LXQt isn't my primary desktop, but I have spent enough hours with it to understand basic configuration. If you decide to try it, I might be able to help with basic things. A few tips right away:

1. Uninstall lxrandr package first thing you do. As d_o pointed out this package was installed by mistake on MX isos and since it shows up in LXQt it will confuse you unless you uninstall it (it is monitor settings for LXDE).

2. Save a monitor configuration in LXQt Monitor/Display settings to avoid a pointless lxqt-monitor-config popup at login.

3. Scaling requires logout. There are values that need to be set in LXQt environment GUI to scale GTK applications. GDK_SCALE is only integer values. GDK_DPI_SCALE is fractional font scaling for gtk. Set it to match scaling in LXQt. There are other useful values to put here (I think they only apply to LXQt and not other DEs installed). For example a Qt frontend to LibreOffice is a nice thing to have in LXQt (must be installed). Qt frontends can be set in all Chromium based web browsers. This gives you LXQt specific dialogs and Qt scaling capabilities. There is also a lxqt-portal for Flatpak/Snap apps.

Qt fractional scaling is why you would use LXQt instead of Xfce. And choice of window manager.

4. PCManFM-Qt is pretty nice (but Thunar is better) and you can start a root instance from its menu bar. Qterminal is a nice terminal once configured in Preferences (a Qt version of Xfce terminal with the same features and dropdown support). Qps is a pretty nice task manager. You can pause it to nail down processes. Screengrab is a screenshot tool. LXImage is an image viewer with annotation capabilities. Qlipper is a clipboard manager.

5. Search in LXQt application menu is slow. There is a much better application menu in LXQt 2.1 in Debian Trixie. And I believe this version of LXQt has transitioned to Qt6.

6. LXQt uses Qt styles. Qt palette lets you change and save application colors, but only applies to Qt styles. Kvantum theme manager is a different svg based theming engine. It has a lot of GUI settings and also config files if you want even more.

7. Be careful with KDE applications. They often use Qt Quick or QML and theming isn't 100 % (same as in Xfce). If you have KDE installed expect it to override gtk theme settings and (worst case scenario) gtk application colors. KDE should always have its own partition IMO.

[AVLinux]

@dreamer

Excellent info, exactly the kind of info I was looking for! I appreciate your time.

I have Gnome Boxes up and running so I will set up a VM and do some torture testing. I personally think Enlightenment is the bomb but LXQT theoretically looks like it could be a great Plan B companion. I really try hard to like XFCE4 but I just can't get into it for some reason... *shrugs

I'll probably be back with more questions but I'll start a new thread for that..

[macronus]

I apologize for my tardiness but I've been tied up with other things that will preoccupy me until the weekend. I'll be very willing to continue this discussion then.

In the meantime, this is how I can set up LXQT (and Plasma as well) using the command-line interface:

Code: Select all

sudo apt install --install-recommends kwin-x11
sudo apt install --install-recommends pipewire-setup-mx lxqt
sudo apt remove plasma-workspace-wayland
sudo apt autoremove

It appears that there's something special about using the option "--install-recommends". I never knew that this even existed until I learned to look inside "/var/log/apt/history.log" to see what I accomplished playing around with MX Package Installer. If not for this I never would have figured anything out. What other logs might I need to examine?

Everything appears to work on a superficial level but I don't know yet about anything subtle being broken underneath the hood.

With this I have the choice of logging into Enlightenment, LXQT or Plasma. The only mutual interference I can immediately recognize is that these all use the Desktop folder "~/Desktop" for shortcuts. The Enlightenment shelves are not seen within the other desktop environments though. I'm thinking Cairo Docks may be the way to go for shortcuts in LXQT and Plasma.

[Aceediq]

@dreamer

Excellent info, exactly the kind of info I was looking for! I appreciate your time.

I have Gnome Boxes up and running so I will set up a VM and do some torture testing. I personally think Enlightenment is the bomb but LXQT theoretically looks like it could be a great Plan B companion. I really try hard to like XFCE4 but I just can't get into it for some reason... *shrugs

I'll probably be back with more questions but I'll start a new thread for that..

asides it's learning curve, enlightenment is a better DE than xfce, fractional scaling was a deal breaker for me to the extent I was already using enlightenment version of AVL before you made it the main and only version...

any person doing graphics with AVL will welcome enlightenment with open arms while accommodating the learning curve...

I would say KDE is the best all round DE but I don't like it because Qt is proprietary, I know that there is a GPL/open source version with less updates