What about a regular MX Linux with AV Linux config?

[another_account]

Hello,

I cannot fathom why the developer of AVLinux decided to destroy their reputation, and the distro, with this 'Enlightenment' mess.... Completely disarmed by the choice.

Are we able to get xfce4 back on AVLinux again?

Also, I tried downloading the last version with xfce, AVLinux 21.3, but the links to the download have been broken by the dev!! O.o

Does anyone know how to contact the developer of AVLinux to let them know of all my issues? No contact link on the site, either.

IMHO, if you need a whole instruction video to introduce window management after 30 years, something is badly wrong!

Maybe newbies, who have never used anything better, will stick with it, but given the plethora of other, better, window managers out there, Enlightenment is at the bottom of the list. It's far too buggy and maliciously un-intuitive. Using it by default was the first mistake. Not adding a 'switch to xfce4' button was the 2nd.

Many thanks.

[sunrat]

Are we able to get xfce4 back on AVLinux again?

Just install it with MXPI or

Code: Select all

apt install xfce4

I installed KDE Plasma on the latest AVL-MXE and it works fine

Does anyone know how to contact the developer of AVLinux to let them know of all my issues? No contact link on the site, either.

You just did. OP of this topic is the AVL developer.
Or you could read the dozens of other posts by people who don't understand Enlightenment.

[another_account]

Awesome. Thank you for the info.

Last time I used KDE, it was had a problem replicating buttons and interface elements :/ It must be much better now.

I think understanding and accepting are two different things.

If it can't draw menus properly, red flag.

If the system menu is botched and glitchy, red flag.

It's so bad, even the AV Linux dev himself replaces it, red flag.

Please, drop Enlightenment. It has an unreasonable learning curve, which kinda ruins the expectation of upgrading your AVLinux box. You expect an upgrade and you get a complete refit and you're instantly on the back foot... All before actually using the system for what you installed it for.

I don't understand the decision to create a learning curve where none should exist. Why not just make a WM picker like Debian, Zorin or the like rather than forcing this thing on people?

[m_pav]

@another_account Wow, have you even read any of the content in this thread? I think not because if you did, you would have realized Glen who started this thread IS THE DEVELOPER and the thing you seek has already been covered in this thread twice.
Add to that Glenn has heard more opinions than legit queries he can answer to.

Had you truly appreciated Glenn's work and that of the MX devs that went the extra mile to help him to get this gargantuan project off the line, and learned the reason behind his very difficult choice to use E, you might have not criticised his choice and reasoning for using it.

Fluxbox in it's default form is not a thing of beauty, but a dedicated small team made it better than it's ever been in any prior iteration. It's not for everyone, but at least a point and click user can get around it.

We're not talking about Fluxbox here, but we will not denounce anyone who has ideas, passion and the drive to make a Steak meal out of a sows ear ( I know sorry, bad analogy) we will not denigrate that one.

[another_account]

@another_account Wow, have you even read any of the content in this thread? I think not because if you did, you would have realized Glen who started this thread IS THE DEVELOPER and the thing you seek has already been covered in this thread twice.
Add to that Glenn has heard more opinions than legit queries he can answer to.

Had you truly appreciated Glenn's work and that of the MX devs that went the extra mile to help him to get this gargantuan project off the line, and learned the reason behind his very difficult choice to use E, you might have not criticised his choice and reasoning for using it.

Fluxbox in it's default form is not a thing of beauty, but a dedicated small team made it better than it's ever been in any prior iteration. It's not for everyone, but at least a point and click user can get around it.

If there's something people have in abundance, it's opinions.

Ok. I did read a few of the 7 pages in this thread before I realised I read nothing of relevance and my frustration kicked in, again.

After a while, faced with the prospect of dealing with potentially more irrelevant conversational text, I decided I would simply ask, one of the simpler and more affirmative actions, since this was the least stressful thing for me to do.

It was also easier than trawling through pages of random people's conversations.

Forums are good for general, roundabout conversations on any given topic, but they're no replacement for structured documentation. Maybe, if you want fewer subjectivity and opinions, maybe you should use a platform with more structure and features for performing technical support? O.o

After talking with developers of another forum platform, Discuss, they agreed that it's no good for technical support and offered alternatives. But it is still being used for technical support lol

The lack of organisation makes it hard to find relevant, applicable information.

I am terribly sorry, but I didn't come here for a social interaction, I was hoping to find out something quite simple.

But, after searching the web and not finding any reference, I came to this forum (my last choice, tbh) posted a question on a thread returned from a search, which didn't initially show anything of use to me, but I followed it anyway to make sure.

The sheer number of posts and walls of text to go through, the specific terms and turns of phrase I have to search for, coupled with the frustrations of not having a simple manual.

While the forums structure was not a problem with a few dozen members, nowadays forums are an inefficient vestigial artefact of the 90s Internet.

Structured information is not the purpose of a forum. Using one is a 'time-saving exercise' IMHO. It forgoes consistency, structure and accessibility.

We're not talking about Fluxbox here, but we will not denounce anyone who has ideas, passion and the drive to make a Steak meal out of a sows ear ( I know sorry, bad analogy) we will not denigrate that one.

Now, I have no idea what you mean about Fluxbox and denegration :/ This is why I see forums as a clique and assumptive. Is that an in-joke?

[Adrian]

Did you pay for AV Linux? I find your entitlement astounding. How dare the developer make a decision that inconvenienced YOU!

[DukeComposed]

Shot:

Forums are good for general conversations on a topic

if you want fewer opinions, maybe don't use a social platform?

Chaser:

I am terribly sorry, but I didn't come here for a social interaction

Translation: "I came to a social platform to complain because I recognize it's an easy place to start a dialogue, but I don't want to start a dialogue. I just want to complain. Capitulate to me."

[Eadwine Rose]

@another_account You will either become a normal participant of the forum, or you will leave, but we do not cater to other peoples' whims. Thanks.

[AVLinux]

@another_account

I'm the maintainer of AV Linux, I had to sleep on this before replying here, and thanks to others for replying and for your support.

First, I wouldn't talk to a dog let alone a total stranger the way you have 'said hello' here, projects are people, Linux projects are mostly people doing something in their spare time out of the love of doing it and when you do something you love you there is an emotional attachment.. That doesn't mean you have to like everything about it because we all have opinions, but I do expect people to be polite at the very least when they voice those opinions. I value feedback and do what I can in most cases to improve things but nobody likes to be talked down to..

Enlightenment is a Desktop, a Panel and some Icons just like everything else out there, sure some settings are different and a few things are in different places. Thunar from XFCE4 is there which is the core of XFCE4 so this isn't really that radically different but because I knew it would be a big change I took the time to make a release Video to help identify those differences. I've used Enlightenment daily on several machines for about 4 years now and in no way has it been an impediment to doing Audio and Video production and I love it and it's not going anywhere. Work is ongoing to take the feedback from the AV Linux 23 release and help streamline things and make Enlightenment work better and the MX Linux developers have been extremely helpful at helping with making the Live ISO and installation more suited to Enlightenment's needs for future releases. Work is also ongoing to isolate the AV Linux utilities and tools and make them self-contained to be installed in any MX Linux variant but all of this takes TIME outside of work and family so it doesn't happen instantly. If none of that is acceptable then as others have said XFCE4 or KDE are easily installed from the Package Manager, I myself tested KDE for a few months and although it is quite nice it wasn't a step forward and is quite complicated to fully customize for deployment. AV Linux isn't the only game in town, there is Ubuntu Studio or repository-based overlays like LibraZik or GeekOSDAW for openSUSE..

As far as AV Linux 21.3 being available I pay for my own VPS out of pocket for ISO hosting and I have limited space and only link the most recent version on my website however I still host it and it can be found here:
https://downloads.bandshed.net/AVL-MXE-21.3/

On this topic as soon as my work schedule clears I will be putting out a "10 things I hate about Enlightenment" Video that will illustrate some differences, quirks and workarounds..

[another_account]

Shot:

Forums are good for general conversations on a topic

if you want fewer opinions, maybe don't use a social platform?

Chaser:

I am terribly sorry, but I didn't come here for a social interaction

Translation: "I came to a social platform to complain because I recognize it's an easy place to start a dialogue, but I don't want to start a dialogue. I just want to complain. Capitulate to me."

Correction: "I see a link to a forum. I search the site looking for the required information or at least a manual. Can't find what I need. See the forum link again... So I search with Google but find nothing relevant, again... I look at the forum link a third time and sigh... I recognise that forums are social platforms and I may not be able to find the information I need. Anxiety time. I overcome my detestation and REGISTER on the forum, handing over personal details to a platform I already have reservations about. I search the platform and get myriad of possibly partly relevant results. I try to find an applicable one and read. After ~3 pages of paragraphed text, my ADHD kicks in and I stop being able to read and take things in and I get more frustrated... 'Why can't I just find this one little piece of information? WHY do I have to engage with random people? Just this one little change and I can get on with using setting up this PC for recording.' Hit a brick wall, so I decide that the best thing I can do is ask the question anyway, what's the worst than could happen? Oh, yeah, the clique. I wanted information, but I got conversation. Now I've wasted 3 hours of my day editing and reediting a response over and over."


But, yeah... Keep assuming things about strangers who use your forum. :/