Worry About 3rd Party Data Collection?

[siamhie]

However, the post listed at the top warns that Midnight Lizard uses 3rd-party data collection.

If it were me, I would not use it.

I've already mentioned that it is NOT Midnight Lizard collecting this data.
viewtopic.php?p=794551#p794551

There are links at the bottom of ML's settings page that are out of their control.

bottom left corner (Facebook, Instagram, Etc.)

mls.png

Midnight Lizard web-extension does not collect any of your personal information,
browsing history, IP addresses, etc. Also it does not sell or transfer your personal
information to advertisers or other third-parties.

Midnight Lizard web-extension does not use browser cookies.

Midnight Lizard web-extension has links to external sites that are not operated by us.

https://midnight-lizard.org/extension-privacy

[Eadwine Rose]

As far as google knowing where my phone is and such..

Without the location being on your phone won't ring. A necessary convenience, eh?

Not true. Phone rings even when that is off.

[lars_the_bear]

As far as google knowing where my phone is and such..

Without the location being on your phone won't ring. A necessary convenience, eh?

Android doesn't require a location service to take incoming calls; nor does its open-source derivatives like LineageOS. I'm not sure about other kinds of cellphone. I can't remember the last time I switched location services on in my Android phone. Stock Android and LineageOS will use Google's servers to speed up GPS fix ("Assisted GPS"), which will send cellular location data to Google. On LineageOS, you can turn this feature off, although doing so can add a minute to the time to get an initial GPS fix. I'm not sure about stock Android.

Even if you turn A-GPS off, some apps that use positioning will use the GPS API in Google Play Services which, again, sends position information to Google. There's no advantage to app developers in using this API, rather than the cellphone's built-in GPS, but Google encourages it, for obvious reasons.

If you have an Android (or similar) cellphone, and you don't want Google knowing where you are, you have to be very careful. I generally keep the location service turned off which, not only improves privacy, but also increases battery life. The OpenStreetMap app uses only cellphone GPS, not Google services, so that's what I use if I need a map.

BR, Lars

[FullScale4Me]

As far as google knowing where my phone is and such..

Without the location being on your phone won't ring. A necessary convenience, eh?

Not true. Phone rings even when that is off.

Ah, I was told this by my 'in-house' phone expert, my wife an ex-telecom employee.

[lars_the_bear]

Ah, I was told this by my 'in-house' phone expert, my wife an ex-telecom employee.

There are some things in Android that do need location services, for reasons that are not really clear. Bluetooth Low Energy scanning needs it, for example. This is very contentious in the Android developer community.

So I can see why misconceptions like this might arise. But I guess it's easy enough to test, right? No need to take my word for it

BR, Lars.

[user101]

As far as google knowing where my phone is and such..

Without the location being on your phone won't ring. A necessary convenience, eh?

Android doesn't require a location service to take incoming calls; nor does its open-source derivatives like LineageOS.

The thing with Apple & Google is they are exempt from your Location / wi-fi / bluetooth / GPS settings. They can (and do) turn these on without your knowledge to track location 24/7, among other things, even when SIMless. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0s8ZG6HuLrU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RXs1e7FcJg
You can also search for: Google Location settlement.

When the user reasonably expects OFF to mean OFF, OFF is only for third-party apps, not Apple & Google. Rooting your android device (and gettingi rid of Google Play, Google apps, etc.) will not get rid of the proprietary code Google uses to track users. To actually have OFF mean OFF, you need custom firmware on the small selection of phones / tablets that can take open-source custom firmware. Apple users have no similar solutions. Apple brags about caring for your privacy, which is a sad joke. Both of them make deals with countries around the world to surveil their users in order to be able to sell their devices in these markets, including China.

[lars_the_bear]

To actually have OFF mean OFF, you need custom firmware on the small selection of phones / tablets that can take open-source custom firmware.

I can't comment on Apple, but Android is an advertising platform. Tracking your location is part of how that platform is implemented, and I don't think that's any kind of secret. Having said that, I'm not convinced that Android will slyly use GPS when the user has turned the location service off. It probably doesn't even need to -- there are other ways to track the user's location that don't rely on GPS, and are good enough for advertising purposes. I'm not defending Google -- I'm sure they're capable of deceptive practices; but if Android behaved the way you imply, I think that would show up in, for example, battery life. The reality is that most people with Android phones leave the location service turned on -- most don't even know, I think, that there's a switch for it -- so there's no need for Google to be deceptive. Goodness knows, the reality is bad enough -- there's no need to exaggerate the problem.

There are plenty of phones that can take custom firmware -- I don't think it's a 'small selection'. The problem is that most of these phones are at least two years old, and many people like to use devices that are newer than that. So long as I can continue to replace the battery, I don't care how old my phone is, but I suspect I'm in the minority.

The real problem with custom firmware is that installing it is a PITA, but it's not beyond the capability of a typical Linux user, I think. It's a weird irony that the devices on which it's easiest to do this are Google's own Pixel devices. Well, the other real problem is that the number of people who are capable of producing custom firmware is diminishing, because everybody with that kind of skill ends up working for Google.

When it becomes impossible to use a smartphone in a completely de-Googled way, I'll be going back to a brick phone, and I'd recommend the same to anybody else who cares about privacy.

BR, Lars.

[operadude]

However, the post listed at the top warns that Midnight Lizard uses 3rd-party data collection.

If it were me, I would not use it.

So, my question is: How concerned should I be about any 3rd-party data collection?

I personally block as many scripts as practical, with https://noscript.net/ (and Ublock Origin) but it's ultimately a personal decision that only you can answer.

Just seeing this now...

Thanks!

[user101]

I can't comment on Apple, but Android is an advertising platform. Tracking your location is part of how that platform is implemented, and I don't think that's any kind of secret.

I only found out a few years ago that OFF was never really OFF (as a typical user would assume), but I always used to wonder what could be eating up my battery (before this I was using a Nokia Symbian-based phone which was far more efficient, and not only because of the smaller screen because I am talking standby). Custom firmware phones do have increased battery life because this stuff is truly off, by the way.

The reality is that most people with Android phones leave the location service turned on -- most don't even know, I think, that there's a switch for it -- so there's no need for Google to be deceptive. Goodness knows, the reality is bad enough -- there's no need to exaggerate the problem.

Turning Location OFF is only for third-party apps, both Google & Apple ignore your settings when it comes to tracking location (through various means, GPS, wi-fi, bluetooth).

There are plenty of phones that can take custom firmware -- I don't think it's a 'small selection'.

It's very small, from my perspective. We get an avalanche of new devices released every year & so few are ready for custom firmware. Even with the older devices, so few devices (relative to the pile of products releaed in any given year). A tiny percentage of the overall selection of devices.

The problem is that most of these phones are at least two years old, and many people like to use devices that are newer than that. So long as I can continue to replace the battery, I don't care how old my phone is, but I suspect I'm in the minority.

A Samsung S5 or an ancient Samsung Note model with custom firmware (and of course pop-off back cover with removable battery, as god intended) is more valuable to me than just about anything selling now.

The real problem with custom firmware is that installing it is a PITA, but it's not beyond the capability of a typical Linux user, I think.

It is a PITA for sure. I have to set aside a block of time to get 'into the zone'. Gather instructions, various files, etc. It takes me far too long, and makes me nervous too, taking some years off my life with every attempt. I absolutely hate the process but love the results (when it works). There are businesses selling custom firmware phones but they are pretty much always overpriced, so my Tightness Gene kicks in and doesn't allow it.

It's a weird irony that the devices on which it's easiest to do this are Google's own Pixel devices.

Yes, I've always thought that was weird. Though I am not interested in any device without a removable MicroSD, which so many manufacturers are not going with today. Without one, if something happens to the phone, all your data is on the phone and there it goes.

Well, the other real problem is that the number of people who are capable of producing custom firmware is diminishing, because everybody with that kind of skill ends up working for Google.

When it becomes impossible to use a smartphone in a completely de-Googled way, I'll be going back to a brick phone, and I'd recommend the same to anybody else who cares about privacy.

I hope that day never comes

[davidy]

The US govt has mandated that ONLY the newer 4G smartphones with the newer samsung exynos chips (radios all fused together) are allowed here in the US. Even if the phone has 4G capabilities, if it's an older model it's blacklisted. So they not only made it harder to make a phone call they made it much easier to spy on everyone by forcing the same hardware down the US's throats. Both my "smartphones" are running a version of de-googled lineageos with magisk and neither of them are listed as being 5G. When they make it where you are forced to use a 5G phone, which I'm sure they plan on, I will have to purchase a data plan only sim card and a sip acct and start using sip instead. Then at least I'll be able to use wifi at home for calls instead of going through the exynos fused nonsense radios.

Redpocket is the cheapest cell service, but, you have to be able to edit the apn to get it to work so 'brickphones' won't work. Plus EVERY phone sold has a gps chip and imo, the simpler it is the less likely you are in separating the radios inside, meaning your gps is always on. Great if you are actively tracking someone's every move, what the govt does, but terrible if you actually believe in privacy as a God-given right.
The AGM G6 is a rugged brickphone that says it has NO gps, and it's cheap too at around $70 the last time I checked but it requires a sim card that is automatically recognized like an ATT plan and those are not actaully cheap like redpocket. That's a great phone but you cannot install aps nor edit your apn like you can on a fragile pita complicated smartphone pos. (just what grandma doesn't need or want).

What needs to take place is we the people need to take our privacy back and make it IMPOSSIBLE for the govt to snoop on our communications at all EVER. If we don't they will simply continue to use this data, our data, to control us ever the moreso.

Attention is about control. "Data collection" is not what's happening at all and it's really just that simple.