Request: Home Automation

[CharlesV]

Maybe a better way to request this would be to find dependencies for the package, install it in a vm and see what / how it works. Then, once you have the working package you can figure out what it takes to get that onto MX and request those dependencies.
( ie you know that you cant load it because of Python 3.10, so that would be a good first start.)

I think j2mcgreg hit on it though... why not start at that link he posted and figure out what it takes to put it on a raspberry? THAT makes more sense to me than a full blown machine running MX if your attempting to save power. (And, I believe I saw a MX raspberry respin around here.)

[MadMax]

I'd agree on the matter, that MX is not the right OS to run your home automation from. MX is an operation system for desktop PCs and home automation is not supposed to be run from desktop PCs. So they are inherently different things.

[Jakob77]

Is it now a new policy or another forum rule that a MX computer is not allowed to do things automatically.?
I believe it has to do with hard core automation that needs real-time, but the truth is you can do a lot with less.
In the other subject I mentioned a wireless printer.
That is automatic and remote controlled.
How can we print with MX but it is impossible and maybe even ethical forbidden to let MX turn on the light in the yard.?
Doesn't it sound silly to you.?
It does to me.

If you look at Home Assistant and their sensors you don't need imagination to understand all the wishes there can be added, but actually just being able to turn simple switches on and off in a timetable would in my opinion be a huge step forward for man kind.

If it is not all too hard about hard- and software I want MX to take that first step.

It is about saving electricity when it is expensive, and that is just as much about using it when it is cheap.
I believe the electricity used by the MX computer in this case is negligible. The heat might often even be wanted and therefore not a waste.


Many takes it for granted it has to run 24/7 but that is not necessarily the case.
Here it is normally in the afternoon the price is low.
Then I can at noon configure how many heaters I want to turn on when for the following few hours when I do other things. And the computer can be turned off at night.
Today I have to walk 100 yards around to turn switches on and remember to be there in time to turn them off again.
Can you soon begin to understand how silly it is if anyone has to buy one more computer to maintain and install until they faint just to do so simple things.?

[richb]

It has nothing to do with the Forum. You are getting opinions from users.

[CharlesV]

@Jakob77 I had to do an install today which required python 3.10.8. (3.10.10 is current)

I followed the instructions here,
https://tecadmin.net/how-to-install-pyt ... debian-11/

with the only deviation - I had to use sudo on this line

Code: Select all

sudo make altinstall 

All looked fine and worked perfect afterwards. Might be useful in your quest for that home automation running on MX.

[mxrd]

read here about this home-assistent first time, very interesting, so i
looked up, and get some thoughts (!warning)

so just my 1 ct stupid thoughts, may be total nonsense, but?:

-home assistent says it comes with docker(to install in vm), so maybe there is no real version problem?
-when running mx in a vm on mx, it has been using significantly less cpu than ubuntu when idle, when i tried
it last time: mx seems to need less energy when idle, so maybe in general, too?
-so running a home automation on a vm on a mx may be not that absurd idea, especially because
there are mx-flavours out there running on raspberry, so once getting it running on normal machine,
it may be not that difficult to set it up on rapsberry ...

[Eadwine Rose]

MX Team is not going to implement this, but since chatting about it keeps going, it'll go into chat. Moved.

[Jakob77]

@Jakob77 I had to do an install today which required python 3.10.8. (3.10.10 is current)

I followed the instructions here,
https://tecadmin.net/how-to-install-pyt ... debian-11/

with the only deviation - I had to use sudo on this line

Code: Select all

sudo make altinstall 

All looked fine and worked perfect afterwards. Might be useful in your quest for that home automation running on MX.

Thank you. I think you ought to give it to the developers in another request. Code that works can be hard to find and you are a bit of an eagle.

But I am loosing motivation for HA
It feels like using a backhoe for a tea spoon.
mxrd's post also confirms my suspicion about overlooking something.
I have zero experience with Virtual Box.
Is it the same as DOS Box there is a motor running constantly using a lot of energy just to hold up the environment for what is going on in the box.?

If that is the case I don't think it is a good solution for a program that has to be on standby most of the time.

Can we even control everything from the box or do we still need one of those small rasp computers.?


If I use a printer it also activates the CPU but only for a short time. I think it ought to be the same with a switch that turns the water heater on and off.

[CharlesV]

VirtualBox does keep cpu cycles running if your running a VM all the time. However, 1) its not THAT much more cycles if your computer is always on, and 2) you can setup a timer to spin up a VM when you want it to start up.

Example - I have 2 VM's running always, and a few other applications on that computer, and the cpu is roughly 20% at all times, until one of the VM's does something. One is for cameras and recording, and one is a server, so both are engaged all the time, with various loads. And then routinely I kick up two more VM's, and those DEV and testing VM's will take me to approx 75% cpu - but that is 4 VM's running at the same time and those last two VM's are pretty intensive too.

Personally, I think the raspberry pi is a better solution for Home Automation and it seems to be the way things are going.


As for the entire Home Automation thing.. I can see where it might be good form some things, however in my opinion, there are a lot of things you can do to a house ( at least here in the states ), that can reduce energy use, and pretty efficiently too. Switching out light switches to ones that have motion detectors in them can be a huge savings right there. Running a few timed devices for power if you want them, and then moving to LED lights and various energy efficient devices all makes a huge difference. And if your heating and cooling is not already in a programmed state, then your loosing already.

For me, the cost of a dedicated computer to "automate", plus the costs of all the devices to automate, and then expense of running it all is a much higher cost then these things I just mentioned. The cost savings is interesting when you map all this out and compare automation vs energy efficient devices. I did this a few years back and was kind of shocked at how little savings a dedicated system for me really was in comparison. (of course, I shut off lights when not a room, and have already outfitted all lights with LED.) My biggest energy drain are 2 refrigerators, two computers always on, and then A/C in the summer. Since home automation wont tackle any of those issues... /-/

[Jakob77]

That is smart. Then we just need some Home Automation to set the timer for waking up the box. LOL

From my point of view things are going from a place where we have 98% of the population not yet understanding what it is about and 1% has left them in the dessert while they create a lot of light show fun for themselves.

What it really ought to be about is yet to be discovered.


1) When you play with light you almost always do it for convenience and/or security.

That is not necessarily wrong just be aware of it being a 'luxury'.


2) When you play with cameras you almost always do it for convenience and/or security.

That is not necessarily wrong just be aware of it being a 'luxury'.


If you afterwards calculate the time and hardware costs and find out it was bad business for saving money don't be surprised. The project was on other tracks right from the start.



If you want to save the money and the energy and the world from 3. WW you need to get the priorities straight.
In some places that can be complicated but in Denmark it is getting pretty easy because the price is lowest when the energy is sustainable.

So the important thing is to control the most energy greedy devices and focus on them.

It is about when to charge the electric car and other things but for most people IRL today it is mostly about heat and hot water.

A/C is also about heat but I don't think the factory that build heat pumps has understood yet how important it is to be able to regulate them with simple Linux Home Automation.
Maybe you can.?

In many homes the most obvious thing to control is one or more electric water heaters in the summer time. But if the price is high only in prime time the same time every day a switch in a watch can do the job as well. Just please understand if it is not a weak cable system but actually the wind and sun that sets the price you can't do that anymore. That is the way it is going in Denmark and I like it. The people just need to adjust in time (we are already far behind) or there can be a risk of a lot of bad expensive implications instead of a lot of cheap clean electricity.