Wise to upgrade from 19.4 to 21?

[MXRobo]

@MXRobo: THX for your extensive information. I guess my system is from October 2019 as stated in the overview: Distro: MX-19.4_x64 patito feo October 21 2019

So the answer to my topic question is "YES". Because my system has an older kernel which does not automatically update and 21 does. Right?

Basically ninja’d by Stuart_M
@Stuart_M sorry, I did not read your post.

You're welcome.
Absolutely NOT, that is NOT my answer – but I’ll get to that in a minute.

RE: Distro: MX-19.4_x64 patito feo October 21 2019

I’m not sure what that means, first, I didn’t catch that, but I think I installed mine from 19.1 (doubtfully 19.2) and it reads February 15 2020 which isn’t that relatively close to what your date is. It may very well mean that.
________________________
Kernels 4.19 and 5.10 are (at least were, and I believe that are still) LTS (long term release) kernels which almost always receive automatic updates, but this was a rare unique situation where they did not.

Reread Stevo’s reply:

Your system must have reached 19.4 through in-place updates instead of a fresh install to not have them--but I had the notion that MXPI was installing those 4.19 metapackages if you wanted the 4.19 kernel--this needs some research.

You and I originally installed a point release prior to the [“pivotal release” hypothetically say 19.2] , and we made “in-place” updates.

Say we originally installed MX19.0 , and then made “in-place” updates, from 19.0 to 19.1 to 19.2 to 19.3 to 19.4.
All of the in-place updates worked fine except for the 4.19 kernel, it remained stuck at 4.19.0-6-amd64 (Stuck @ 0-6)

Had we performed a fresh install of 19.3 (maybe 19.2, depending on what version started automatically updating again), then all of the in-place updates (to 19.4), including the kernels would have automatically updated as they should.
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The above may be incorrect as it could’ve depended on the kernel version (4.19.0-6-amd64, 0-6, 0-9, 0-12, etc.) as opposed to the MX point release, e.g. 19.2 or 19.3. - but I don’t think it really matters as the concept is similar.
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I, and many others are currenlty running MX19.4 fine, but you have a rare situation.

So, I’d suggest to try these three (3): (I made a typo or whatever in the previous reply)

1 - Open MX Package Installer (MXPI)>Popular Applications>Kernels
If 4.19 is NOT greyed-out (indicating that it is installed) just install (or reinstall), but I don’t think it will be.
Reboot, check kernel version in terminal with either uname -r or uname -a
it should be 4.19.0-19, at least 4.19.0-18.

2 - If it IS greyed-out: MXPI>Stable (or Synaptic P.M. - I believe) and install:
linux-image-4.19.0-19-amd64-unsigned
linux-headers-4.19.0-19-amd64
which should install: linux-image-4.19.0-19-common (Highlighted package>R-Click>more info – read it, it will tell if it will be installed.)

3 – This one can be done after doing one of the two above, I suggest the above in order to have an up to date 4.19 kernel to use if you have problems with the 5.10 kernel.
(If you system is fine, you don’t need the 5.10 kernel, but it probably work as good as the 4.19 kernel)
So option 3 is: MXPI>Popular Applications>Kernels and Install Debian 5.10 64 bit (latest)
It’s an LTS kernel also, which will get automatic updates, this should be fine.

You need the updates for security and bug fixes, you're way behind - I was behind in July of 2021!

Get in MXPI and just do it.

One last thought, I’d definitely update the 4.19 kernel for the obvious, to be up to date, but also, at the worst, you screw something up in 4.19, simply:
MXPI>Popular Applications>Kernels and Install Debian 5.10 64 bit (latest)
It will probably work fine.

HTH

[FrSu]

Okay. I did the kernel update via MxPI. With uname -r I got: 4.19.0-19-amd64

I restarted without issues. So it should be okay now. From now on the kernel is updated automatically?

[Stuart_M]

Yes, the new kernel (4.19.0-19) will now be automatically updated when you run MX Updater and MX-19 is still supported (until June 2024). So now you have a couple more years of joy to go. More if you don't mind manually updating after that...

[baldyeti]

Yay ! From now on it should be smooth sailing until mid-2024, at which point you can decide to install MX23 !

[MXRobo]

@Stuart_M
I was under the impression that the kernel did update up to a particular kernel version (or possibly MX point release version) and then stopped auto-updating at one particular "pivotal" kernel version (possibly more than one) and then continued updating once past that pivotal kernel version although I don't really know what the kernel was doing before 4.19.0-17 or really before 4.19.0-06.
Mine has been updating since July 2021, 4.19.0-17, once I got past, or installed the newer kernels.
The 4.19 kernel does update automatically, does it not?
With the exception of when it did not of course.

And, does reinstalling while it is greyed-out in “MXPI>Popular” update the kernel?

I was not aware of that, and no one suggested that I update that way when I fell behind.
That would be a little easier, not much harder, but I installed the linux image and header files.

Sorry, I didn’t read your post before I posted, so combined with thinking that no one posted regarding the non-updating kernel, and unaware of the ability to update from MXPI>Popular (as I questioned above), I thought he had to install them manually or individually.

So, I thought he had a situation that was possibly unrecognized.

[Stuart_M]

Just to clarify...

... I was under the impression that the kernel did update up to a particular kernel version (or possibly MX point release version) and then stopped auto-updating at one particular "pivotal" kernel version (possibly more than one) and then continued updating once past that pivotal kernel version although I don't really know what the kernel was doing before 4.19.0-17 or really before 4.19.0-06.

My Post #15 gave a brief explanation of this. Kernel 4.19.0-6 will not automatically update and that kernel version has always been that way. The reason is because of that kernel version and not MX-19, 19.1, 19.2, etc. When 4.19.0-6 was (manually) updated to I think 4.19.0-10 or -12 (I don't remember) in early-mid 2020(?) then that updated kernel began to automatically update with MX Updater.

I used the MX-19 beta and then made a new installation with the official MX-19 release that used the 4.19.0-6 kernel when it came out 21 October 2019 so I've been with MX-19 from the start of its beta and I am very familiar with the forum posts about this issue in 2020 and 2021.

... The 4.19 kernel does update automatically, does it not?
With the exception of when it did not of course. ...

That's not a good premise because "4.19" includes 4.19.0-6, 4.19.0-12, 4.19.0-19 and so forth. It is not the kernel series that matters, it is the kernel VERSION that does. Which version are you specifically asking about? The question is rhetorical since it has already been answered above...

As stated above, the version that started automatically updating was 4.19.0-12 or somewhere around that version, but 4.19.0-6 definitely does NOT automatically update.

And, does reinstalling while it is greyed-out in “MXPI>Popular” update the kernel?

No. An entry in MXPI that is greyed out simply indicates a package that is already installed.

I presume that question is from my Post #15 image where I showed where the kernel was located to help the original poster see exactly where he needs to go in order to install it and, as I stated in that post, that it is greyed out because it "is installed in my 19.4 installation".

Sorry, I didn’t read your post before I posted ...

I believe this is in regards to my Post #20 when I said "I get the sense that you have not read my Post #15 where I explained the when, hows and whys...". That question was directed to the original poster of this thread (user FrSu) where I had quoted him above that line. It had/has nothing to do with MXRobo and I am confused why you think it would (no need to answer).

[MXRobo]

@Stuart_M
A lot of the confusion was due to semantics as I was incorrectly using kernel when I should have said a particular “kernel version” as opposed to major, minor, and in particular patch - or perhaps a kernel series.
Also, I was unaware that kernels within a series did not automatically update - that’s why I inquired – for knowledge.

RE:
My Post #15 gave a brief explanation of this. Kernel 4.19.0-6 will not automatically update and that kernel version has always been that way. The reason is because of that kernel version and not MX-19, 19.1, 19.2, etc. When 4.19.0-6 was (manually) updated to I think 4.19.0-10 or -12 (I don't remember) in early-mid 2020(?) then that updated kernel began to automatically update with MX Updater.

Isn’t it actually, that “kernel patch” has always been that way, as opposed to “kernel version”?

And ignoring the semantics, - not that they aren’t essential - is essentially what I said.

RE:
I used the MX-19 beta and then made a new installation with the official MX-19 release that used the 4.19.0-6 kernel when it came out 21 October 2019 so I've been with MX-19 from the start of its beta and I am very familiar with the forum posts about this issue in 2020 and 2021.
I assumed so, that’s why I inquired.

RE:
That's not a good premise because "4.19" includes 4.19.0-6, 4.19.0-12, 4.19.0-19 and so forth. It is not the kernel series that matters, it is the kernel VERSION that does. Which version are you specifically asking about? The question is rhetorical since it has already been answered above…

Rhetorical is more intent dependent than inference and therefore time/context dependent, and while it may have been somewhat rhetorical to elicit a response it wasn’t redundant when asked prior to you answering it - due my botching of the kernel terminology - even if it was surmise dependent it
RE:
I presume that question is from my Post #15 image where I showed where the kernel was located to help the original poster see exactly where he needs to go in order to install it and, as I stated in that post, that it is greyed out because it "is installed in my 19.4 installation".

Yes you did say that it was greyed out because it’s installed (which I assumed everyone assumed), but you state:
The easiest way to update to 4.19.0-19 is with MXPI > Popular Applications tab > Kernel category as shown in the below image. (Note that it is greyed out in this image because that is installed in my 19.4 installation):
MXPI_Popular_Applications_tab_Kernels.png

but they appear to be explicit instructions as to how to update; that’s what I inferred and why I inquired.
I wasn’t trying to give anyone the third degree, I was/am simply trying to educate myself because I know I don’t know crap about linux – taken as face value.

RE:
It had/has nothing to do with MXRobo and I am confused why you think it would (no need to answer).

To be considerate - it was a conciliatory attempt to explain what were, and what I thought were errors on my part, in deference to your linux knowledge; misconstruing patches for versions or incorrectly advising him to to install manually as opposed to using MXPI>Popular Apps>Kernels, and assuming that others may have not told him that 4.19.0-6 would not automatically update.

No need to answer.

[JanK]

Will MX19 LTS be updating Firefox and Chrome?

[Eadwine Rose]

@JanK Please don't ask the same question tacked on to multiple threads, it is bad form.

If you want an answer that badly ask it in its own thread.