Wise to upgrade from 19.4 to 21?

[Solon]

Thx everyone for the feedback. I will keep my current 19.4 as it works just fine on my Asus Vivobook. Very happy with it. Thx again!

Generally a good idea, however, have you read and considered baldyeti's post #7 above? Let me repeat it here for you:

Again: you do not have to upgrade unless you want to, there is no huge benefit when MX19/buster is supported for another 2+ years. But in buster the kernel is currently at 4.19.0-19, not 4.19.0-6. Security-wise, it would a good idea to stick to the default.

While you are running MX Linux 19.4, the current (prior) version, you are operating on an old Kernel, to wit: 4.19.0-6!! What baldyeti is saying is that you should upgrade your Kernel to AT LEAST version: 4.19.0-19. If I read his post correctly, he is saying that while the older Kernel still runs your machine, it is not secure unless it gets to version -19.

I too am staying with MX 19.4 for a few more months, but I am running the latest Kernel: 5.10 on my i5 laptop, and the ONLY previous Kernel available to me (if I want to backtrack) is Kernel: 5.8.14. In other words, I can't go back to Kernel: 4.X in the standard installer, even if I wanted to!

I suggest that you follow baldyeti's recommendation and at a minimum upgrade your Kernel to version: 4.19.0-19. However, since you are running MX 19.4 successfully, you should really take the plunge and bring your Kernel right up to version: 5.10.
Go to the MX Package Installer, and look under the heading "Kernel". Click on it and you will see your options. (I have upgraded twice, and each time it went flawlessly.) Remember that MX 19.4 is complete, tried and tested for years now, and all the 'bugs' have been ironed-out. You really have nothing to fear by 'modernizing' your Kernel, and you will gain a boost in security and compatibility with Repo packages too.
When you upgrade your Kernel, you don't have to go straight to 5.10, you can do this in stages and check it out at each stage. With an older machine, if a problem occurs it is rarely in the OS, however, sometimes the latest Kernels will not work as well with 'call' routines recognizing older hardware. So I would advance up through the Kernels, and let each one run for a bit to make sure everything is solid, before advancing to the next Kernel in line.
The previous kernel(s) are always available on your machine (until you uninstall them), and you can choose to boot-up in an earlier version; Go into "Advanced Options" offered in the startup Grub menu, if there is a problem.

[FrSu]

Okay. Why is the kernel not updated when I update the system when requested? I always follow the update manager.

[figueroa]

I'm still supporting some 18.3 at the enterprise level, along with 19.4. Both are kept up-to-date and the users are happy. I expect I will sundown the 18.3 desktops sometime during this summer. There have been no compelling reasons to chase the "shiny new thing" in this regard. The 18.3 desktops are following kernel series 4.19 and the 19.4 versions are following the kernel series 5.10. My thanks to MX developer and maintainer team for continuing to provide up-to-date application software these systems.

[baldyeti]

Okay. Why is the kernel not updated when I update the system when requested? I always follow the update manager.

It was in my post: you need the linux-image-amd64 generic package, which gets updated regularly while specific (or liquorix or AHS etc...) versions never get automatic updates. I do not remember if the original MX ISO included that generic package or only the specific -6 variant. I _think_ if you do not want to install from the command line that this should correspond in the first/main tab of the MXPI to the "Kernels / Debian 64 bits (default debian kernel)" entry (at least that is what it looks like to me under MX21)

[Stuart_M]

... Why is the kernel not updated when I update the system when requested? ...

I agree 100% with figueroa.

According your your QSI (Post #5) you have the first official release of MX-19 dated 21 October 2019 and that first release contains kernel 4.19.0-6 (subsequent MX-19 point releases contain later kernels).

The reason the 4.19.0-6 kernel was not automatically updated is because that kernel does not automatically update. The only way to update that kernel is manually. Automatic kernel updating began with a later kernel which I think was 4.19.0-10 or maybe -12. Actually, it was somewhat common in 2020 and 2021 to see a comment in the forums requesting a user to update their 4.19.0-6 kernel.

The easiest way to update to 4.19.0-19 is with MXPI > Popular Applications tab > Kernel category as shown in the below image. (Note that it is greyed out in this image because that is installed in my 19.4 installation):

MXPI_Popular_Applications_tab_Kernels.png

By the way, I have never had a problem with MX-19 - ever. MX-21 is better in a couple small things, but it is also worse in some other very small things, in my opinion. But I cannot find any reason to abandon MX-19. Maybe I'll switch when MX-25 comes out a few months after MX-19.4 reaches its End of Live (EOL) https://mxlinux.org/previous-releases ...maybe.

[MXRobo]

Okay. Why is the kernel not updated when I update the system when requested? I always follow the update manager.

You said you’ve been using linux since 2008 but you didn’t say how long you’ve been using MX; when did you install MX19, or what version was your MX19 install?

Not sure which version, but somewhere around MX19.2/3 – if you installed MX before that the 4.19 kernel did not automatically update within the 4.19 series. If you installed after that version, or later it automatically updated the kernel.

Looks like you’re stuck at kernel: 4.19.0-6-amd64…, like I was.

Per post #2 from Stevo in the link below:

Yes, those are the Debian 4.19 LTS kernel metapackages you plan to install. They'll update your kernels and everything else automatically, which is the way the latest MX 19 releases work with those preinstalled. Your system must have reached 19.4 through in-place updates instead of a fresh install to not have them--but I had the notion that MXPI was installing those 4.19 metapackages if you wanted the 4.19 kernel--this needs some research.

viewtopic.php?p=643386#p643386
Open the link inside post #1 (my post) for a reference.

See this post (within the linked post) for instructions on how to install linux images and headers.
viewtopic.php?p=643120#p643120

I’m not one to rely on re. linux, but open MXPI>Popular Applications>Kernels; if 4.19 is (EDIT NOT) greyed-out, just reinstall, but I don’t think it will be.

If it’s not greyed-out, you should have newer kernel packages for the 4.19.0-19, or if your repo is a little behind, 4.19.0-18.

Certainly, you do want, and should have 4.19.0-19 installed if using the 4.19 kernel. (or the 5.10 LTS kernel, following.)
That's why baldyeti was suggesting it.
I infer that this non-update was a unique situation and that all LTS kernels normally automatically update.
I ran some buntu distros for a while with dead simple kernel updaters, but without the many advantages of MX, tools, etc., AHS, Liquorix, plus newer kernels without being bleeding edge.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Aside: Re. AHS kernels, most AHS kernels must be checked periodically for updates. Supposedly they do not indicate that there are updates but I've had one recently indicate by not being greyed-out; to be sure to check for updates, I try to reinstall these, if nothing to download, no update. If incorrect, please correct.
Since I don't really know MX's kernels (or any kernels), I keep a close eye on them during updates.
_____________________________________________________________________________
In MXPI, on kernels headers, images, etc.: Highlight>R-Click-more info>Show Details.

Others will be able to tell you what to install better than me, but I’d install:
linux-headers-4.19.0-19-amd64
which should install: linux-image-4.19.0-19-common.
Either one of the following, only one:
linux-image-4.19.0-19-amd64-unsigned (Think this one, as signed is for secure-boot enablement, likely not needed/desired)
linux-image-4.19.0-19-amd64

That should do it - I think.

Another option, simply: MXPI>Popular Applications>Kernels
Install Debian 5.10 64 bit (latest)
It’s an LTS kernel also, which will get automatic updates, this should be fine.

Good luck.

To reply to you original post, I have both 19 & 21 installed on different LTs.
I still like MX19 if I don’t want newer apps. In the future, I may wait until the dot release, or 22.1 or 23.1 are released to install, or install 22/23 if I want newer apps.
They're both nice, maybe wait until MX21.1 is released and install it, it has a few things that are a little different that I like better than MX19, but I could say that about MX19 too.

HTH

[FrSu]

@MXRobo: THX for your extensive information. I guess my system is from October 2019 as stated in the overview: Distro: MX-19.4_x64 patito feo October 21 2019

I have used in the past Ubuntu, Mint, Elementary, Zorin, PClinuxOS and some other. The Debian from MXlinux is a little bit different for me. Playing with kernels is a dangerous activity when you do not know what you do.
I am surprised that the kernel in my (older) MX is not updated automatically.

So the answer to my topic question is "YES". Because my system has an older kernel which does not automatically update and 21 does. Right?

[pianokeyjoe]

It is only wise to upgrade if the features and benefits of MX21 are of specific need and err, benefit, to you. If you are on MX19.4 like me and you have specific features,themes,configs,apps,desktops,etc, that are only available for BUSTER and not yet or at all for Bulls Eye, then upgrading is NOT for YOU. For instance. I have done alot of work with snapshot images of MX 19.3 for use in equipment as Read only OS images for embedding and there are themes for GTK and XFWM and ICONS that are NOT available or usable anymore in MX21, I am compelled to stay with MX19.3/4. If the only thing you want is to be able to use the latest kernels or other apps that keep you bleeding edge, then upgrading to MX21 makes sense if you do not mind some apps and themes breaking like happened when upgrading from MX18.3 to MX19 with GTK2. As such, it is really a case by case, person by person decision. I have been able to upgrade my kernels on my MX19.4 installs without issue BUT.. I am also removing alot of apps, and files I do not need for that specific install and hardware, which streamlines the MX install and allows me to snapshot a live image using only what I want for my specific wants and needs for the specific hardware I have. That said. You can upgrade and it IS wise, if what you want or need to do with MX LINUX, requires features or apps or both that can only be offered in the new MX21/Bulleye release. Otherwise, stay put with MX19.4

[baldyeti]

So the answer to my topic question is "YES". Because my system has an older kernel which does not automatically update and 21 does. Right?

Wrong. Install the generic / metapackage kernel in MX19 and your 4.19 kernel will get regular updates.

Code: Select all

$ sudo apt-get install linux-image-amd64 

I do not have all MX versions, but apparently this package was not included in the original MX19/XFCE but is present in my copy of MX21/KDE. Naturally it can be added afterwards as shown above.

[Stuart_M]

... the answer to my topic question is "YES". Because my system has an older kernel which does not automatically update and 21 does. Right?

That is not correct if all that is needed or wanted is to update the old kernel to get a newer kernel that does not have security concerns and that will automatically update when the MX Updater is run. For MX-19 kernel 4.19.0-19 is perfectly fine. You do not need MX-21 for that. And if you want a newer kernel than 4.19.0-19 in MX-19 you can also do that, but why would you since everything is running fine?

I get the sense that you have not read my Post #15 where I explained the when, hows and whys...

... Playing with kernels is a dangerous activity when you do not know what you do.

I hope that you will now see how easy and safe it is to update your kernel. Select the desired kernel as shown in the outlined red rectangle in the Post #15 image and then click on the "Install" button. After the new kernel is installed the old kernel is still running. You will have to reboot to load and run the kernel that was just installed. Then you're done.

To see what kernel is being used run the following command in a terminal:

Code: Select all

uname -r

Edit: Changed the first paragraph text from "correct" to "not correct".