Where are the [fr_BE] translations on Github?

[Wallon]

Dear fehlix,

Installation done in fr_BE.

1) At login time, I change to fr_FR.
MX Linux asks to change the directory names.
I say "Yes" of course.
The "Desktop" directory is not translated into French.
MX Linux creates a new directory translated into French "Bureau".

2) I change again at login time.
I switch back from fr_FR to fr_BE.
MX Linux doesn't use the "Bureau" directory anymore but comes back to the "Dektop" directory.
ATTENTION, MX Linux has lost the "FAQ.desktop" and "manual.desktop" icons on the main screen. This is normal, the "Dektop" directory on the disk is empty.
I copy the two files "FAQ.desktop" and "manual.desktop" in the old "Dektop" directory. MX Linux is working again.

I confirm that now MX Tools is completely in English in my fr_BE installation.

As anticapitalista showed me, you really need to translate some packages in the four-letter languages.

Best regards,
Wallon

[fehlix]

But... I see an issue within mx-tools not only for fr_BE translations but for other ll_RR languages whre ll != RR, like fr_LU, de_DE, de_AT, de_CH etc

The languages that you are showing examples of are not languages that we track translations through on Transifex. For example, I just download and push de for German. I assume this is due to us never having had a translator request those language variations previously. The translations you are getting are likely fall back translations like the ones that Wallon was talking about in his post above. I am speculating though.

Yes, we won't need for all ll_RR language provide translations.( at least for DE Xfce and KDE). It's enough for Desktop files to just have [ll] translations, the system would then use this for all locale like ll_RR. E.g. if you login to any lang like de_CH, de_AT language , Thunar file manger displays the translated desktop entry names correctly. Only mx-tools seem to miss to translate correctly.
+++EDIT+++: I should have added. In Xfce and KDE localization is done in the way mentioned. Fluxbox handles localization a bit differently, as it does not use in some cases the build in translation capabilities, but need to do an extra translation step before/during login, e.g. for having menus translated.
+++EDIT2+++: E.g You can see in Xfce the system translates correctly to French, to German, or Spain for all mx tools individually within the Whisker menu. But for a locale like fr_RR,de_RR or es_RR language where RR region code is nor equal to the ll-lang code mx-tool itself does not:

Examples: Whisker left (translated); MX-Tools right (not translated)

French Belgium : (fr_BE) / Swiss French (fr_CH):

Whisker-Mx-Tools-fr_CH.png

German Austria: (de_AT)

Whisker-Mx-Tools-de_AT.png

Spanish Mexico: es_MX

Whisker-Mx-Tools-es_MX.png

[fehlix]

Dear fehlix,

Installation done in fr_BE.

1) At login time, I change to fr_FR.
MX Linux asks to change the directory names.
I say "Yes" of course.
The "Desktop" directory is not translated into French.
MX Linux creates a new directory translated into French "Bureau".

2) I change again at login time.
I switch back from fr_FR to fr_BE.
MX Linux doesn't use the "Bureau" directory anymore but comes back to the "Dektop" directory.
ATTENTION, MX Linux has lost the "FAQ.desktop" and "manual.desktop" icons on the main screen. This is normal, the "Dektop" directory on the disk is empty.
I copy the two files "FAQ.desktop" and "manual.desktop" in the old "Dektop" directory. MX Linux is working again.

I confirm that now MX Tools is completely in English in my fr_BE installation.

As anticapitalista showed me, you really need to translate some packages in the four-letter languages.

Best regards,
Wallon

@Wallon, actually the re-naming to translated names of those xdg-standard directories is based on xdg-user-dir tools according to freedesktop standard.

With MX-21 Xfce it was made such that all those directories including the Desktop directory will be renamed, if user confirms the rename operation.

XDG-USER-DIR(1) User Commands XDG-USER-DIR(1)

NAME
xdg-user-dir - Find an XDG user dir

SYNOPSIS
xdg-user-dir [NAME]

DESCRIPTION
xdg-user-dir looks up the current path for one of the special XDG user dirs.

This command expects the name of an XDG user dir as argument. The possible names are:
DESKTOP
DOWNLOAD
TEMPLATES
PUBLICSHARE
DOCUMENTS
MUSIC
PICTURES
VIDEOS

FILES
The values are looked up in the user-dirs.dir file. This file is created by the
xdg-user-dirs-update utility.

ENVIRONMENT
The XDG_CONFIG_HOME environment variable determines where the user-dirs.dirs file is
located.

SEE ALSO
xdg-user-dirs-update(1)

XDG XDG-USER-DIR(1)

After renaming to the translated name: only empty or not-in-use directories are removed. So as the desktop directory normally does have some content like FAQ and Help it will keep it. Which means you will find a the old-"Desktop" directory untouched. But you get a new translated desktop-directory, which will be empty. In addition in Xfce the desktop-directory is in use by Thunar to render the visual "Desktop" on the screen, which means after confirming to re-name the current "desktop" it still displays the old one. You can either re-start Xfce-desktop, which restarts Thunar or do another login, and you get the new "empty" "Desktop" displayed based on the translated desktop-directory name.
I'll need to check to find out why language switch on login screen would not give you the translated desktop-directories, as you mentioned. But don't get confused b/c it always keeps the old-desktop directory in Xfce, as it cannot rename the currently used one even if empty.

[fehlix]

Installation done in fr_BE.

1) At login time, I change to fr_FR.
MX Linux asks to change the directory names.
I say "Yes" of course.
The "Desktop" directory is not translated into French.
MX Linux creates a new directory translated into French "Bureau".

2) I change again at login time.
I switch back from fr_FR to fr_BE.
MX Linux doesn't use the "Bureau" directory anymore but comes back to the "Dektop" directory.
ATTENTION, MX Linux has lost the "FAQ.desktop" and "manual.desktop" icons on the main screen. This is normal, the "Dektop" directory on the disk is empty.
I copy the two files "FAQ.desktop" and "manual.desktop" in the old "Dektop" directory. MX Linux is working again.

OK, I think what needs to be done is this:
After login with differnt lang-locale and accepting to change xdg-user dirs including desktop-directory: Simplest would be to logout and login again.
The reason already mentioned is b/c Thunar does display the visible desktop on the screen and would only take the new translated one after restart/reload, e.g. easiest with logout/login.

You can see in Thunar the Places shortcuts get renamed and the used xdg-directories do show a corresponding icon.
Any other directory like "desktop" directory get not removed. You would need to move/copy manually content of any of those old directory to the new localized directory names.
Also this information is displayed at the popup to confirm updating standard names,
but the content will not be moved.
Here in French after selecting fr_BE (français Belgique) at login, with having old directory in en_US names:

localize-xdg-user-dirs-fr.png

and here again after selecting en_GB (English British) changing from French back to English (UK):

xdg-user-dirs-en_GB.png

[Wallon]

Dear fehlix and dear ravrett,

Thank you for helping the translators who make all the work done by the developers known to other people who don't speak English.

For your information, all packages at Transifex for [fr_BE] are 100% translated. Only old packages closed with a lock are not translated because it's impossible to reopen them.

I also draw your attention to the Brazilian translators who represent a large community. The language is Brazilian Portuguese [pt_BR] and should not be confused with the language of Portugal [pt]. There are big differences between the two languages.
So, if you change the language between [pt] and [pt_BR], you have to find the translations of each country! For your information, all [pt_BR] packages are also 100% translated at Transifex.
I can ask my translator friends in Brazil to do some tests if you want? I see that there are also a lot of [pt_BR] files missing on Github.

Best regards,
Wallon

[fehlix]

I confirm that now MX Tools is completely in English in my fr_BE installation.

@Wallon , thanks.

@Adrian , seems the issue is spotted ... will do some testing and send a fix, to get all tools properly displayed with localized names / comments within MX-Tools, including special handling of Brazilian Portuguese ( to not display in Portuguese but in English if no pt_BR translation is available.) ... a.s.a.p.

[marcelocripe]

Dear Wallon,

Thank you for letting me know about this important topic initiated by you through a private message on the antiX forum.

As you all know, I cannot write or read English, so I rely solely on machine translations to communicate on the forums, so I send my texts translated by the internet translator. Any misunderstanding that may be caused by machine translations can be solved by a person who is bilingual and can understand my original text.

For your information, all packages at Transifex for [fr_BE] are 100% translated. Only old packages closed with a lock are not translated because it's impossible to reopen them.

You explained it perfectly, the same goes for the pt_BR language. When I tried to explain this, in the thread https://forum.mxlinux.org/viewtopic.php?t=62764 on 29 October 2020, what I got was a very rude response here on this forum. Not very encouraging, is it?!

[I also draw your attention to the Brazilian translators who represent a large community. The language is Brazilian Portuguese [pt_BR] and should not be confused with the language of Portugal [pt]. There are big differences between the two languages.[/quote]
You explained perfectly. I explained several times about this in antiX forum, about the differences between pt language and pt_BR language. Some Portuguese people say Brazilians speak "Brazilian" instead of Portuguese.

I proofread, correct and translate both GNU/Linux distributions (MX Linux and antiX Linux) since August 2020, when Xecure taught me on antiX forum how to correct the translations of both distributions. When I have doubts or difficulties in translations, I ask for help in the WhatsApp group and in the Telegram group of MX Linux & antiX Brazil which currently has about 400 active members.
There are several updated and corrected translations that are available on Transifex, but unfortunately they are not being used in the MX Linux and antiX ISOs. Developers and programmers need to make a habit of always searching for the latest translations that are available on Transifex and especially include the .desktop files in Transifex. Asking in a thread in this forum or in the antiX forum for translators to translate the .desktop files does not have the necessary reach and will leave you without translation for several languages.
MX Linux running in pt-BR language is trilingual, it has texts in en, pt and some in pt_BR.
In short, there is no point in volunteer translators translating on Transifex if the developers and programmers do not use these translations. The biggest losers are MX Linux, antiX Linux and the users of these operating systems.

I hope I will not be blocked for writing the truth again on this subject.

Please understand my words translated automatically by the internet translator, I am not writing reviews to belittle or discourage the work of developers and programmers. The programs without translations are incomprehensible to most people who do not understand the English language. The programs and the operating system without translations make it even more difficult for people to stop using other operating systems that may offer more translations. The possibility to increase the reach of MX Linux and antiX Linux to every part of the planet Earth has only one way, this way is through translations. The operating system may be perfect, but without translations it will not be understood and fewer and fewer people will be interested in it.

What I propose is, that we need to create means for all .desktop files and all programs to be reviewed/translated in Transifex in all possible languages. This way, these improvements or corrections can go into the MX Linux and antiX Linux updates as well as into the next ISOs. This solution could be useful for the antiX community.

marcelocripe
(Original text in Brazilian Portuguese language)

- - - - -

Caro Wallon,

Obrigado por me avisar sobre este importante tópico iniciado por você através da mensagem particular no fórum do antiX.

Como todos já sabem, eu não sei escrever ou ler em idioma Inglês, dependo única e exclusivamente das traduções automáticas para me comunicar nos fóruns, por tanto eu envio os meus textos traduzidos pelo tradutor da internet. Qualquer mal entendido que possa ser causado pelas traduções automáticas, poderão ser sanadas por uma pessoa que seja bilíngue e que possa compreender o meu texto original.

For your information, all packages at Transifex for [fr_BE] are 100% translated. Only old packages closed with a lock are not translated because it's impossible to reopen them.

Você explicou perfeitamente, o mesmo vale para o dioma pt_BR. Quando eu tentei explicar isso, no tópico https://forum.mxlinux.org/viewtopic.php?t=62764 no dia 29 de Outubro de 2020, o que eu recebi foi uma resposta muito rude aqui neste fórum. Nada animador, não é mesmo?!

I also draw your attention to the Brazilian translators who represent a large community. The language is Brazilian Portuguese [pt_BR] and should not be confused with the language of Portugal [pt]. There are big differences between the two languages.

Você explicou perfeitamente. Eu expliquei várias vezes sobre isso no fórum do antiX, sobre as diferenças entre o idioma pt e o idioma pt_BR. Tanto é que alguns Portugueses dizem que o Brasileiros falam "Brasileiro" ao invés de falar Português.

Eu faço a revisão, as correções e as traduções de ambas as distribuições GNU/Linux (MX Linux e antiX Linux) desde Agosto de 2020, quando o Xecure me ensinou no fórum do antiX como fazer para corrigir as traduções de ambas as distribuições. Quando eu tenho dúvidas ou dificuldades nas traduções, eu peço ajuda no grupo de WhatsApp e no grupo de Telegram do MX Linux & antiX Brasil que atualmente possui cerca de 400 membros ativos.
Existem várias traduções atualizadas e corrigidas que estão disponíveis no Transifex, mas que infelizmente não estão sendo utilizadas nas ISOs do MX Linux e do antiX. Os desenvolvedores e programadores precisam criar o hábito de sempre buscarem as traduções mais recentes que estão disponíveis no Transifex e principalmente incluir os arquivos .desktop no Transifex. Pois, pedir em um tópico neste fórum ou no fórum do antiX para os tradutores traduzirem os arquivos .desktop não tem o alcance necessário e ficará sem tradução para vários idiomas.
O MX Linux sendo executado em idioma pt-BR está trilíngue, possui textos em en, pt e alguns em pt_BR.
Em resumo, não adianta os tradutores voluntários traduzirem no Transifex se os desenvolvedores e programadores não utilizam estas traduções. Quem mais perde com isso é o MX Linux, o antiX Linux e os usuários destes sistemas operacionais.

Eu espero que eu não seja bloqueado por escrever a verdade novamente sobre este assunto.

Por favor, compreendam as minhas palavras traduzidas automaticamente pelo tradutor da internet, eu não estou escrevendo críticas para desmerecer ou para desanimar os trabalhos dos desenvolvedores e programadores. Os programas sem traduções são incompreensíveis para a maioria das pessoas que não compreendem o idioma Inglês. Os programas e o sistema operacional sem as traduções, tornam ainda mais difícil para as pessoas deixarem de utilizar os outros sistemas operacionais que eventualmente ofereçam mais traduções. A possibilidade de aumentar o alcance do MX Linux e do antiX Linux em cada parte do planeta Terra só tem um caminho, este caminho é por meio das traduções. O sistema operacional pode ser perfeito, mas sem as traduções não será compreendido e cada vez terá menos pessoas interessadas nele, o mesmo vale para os programas aplicativos.

O que eu proponho é, que precisamos criar meios para todos os arquivos .desktop e todos os programas poderem ser revisados/traduzidos no Transifex em todos os idiomas possíveis. Desta forma, estas melhorias ou correções poderão entrar nas atualizações do MX Linux e do antiX Linux, bem como nas próximas ISOs. Esta solução poderá ser útil para a comunidade antiX.

marcelocripe
(Texto original em idioma Português do Brasil)

[fehlix]

I confirm that now MX Tools is completely in English in my fr_BE installation.

@Wallon , thanks.

@Adrian , seems the issue is spotted ... will do some testing and send a fix, to get all tools properly displayed with localized names / comments within MX-Tools, including special handling of Brazilian Portuguese ( to not display in Portuguese but in English if no pt_BR translation is available.) ... a.s.a.p.

OK, tested the fix for mx-tools to display for all languages the available localization. ( @Adrian )
With a special rule for Brazilian Portuguese to either show the Brazilian-Portuguese translated tool name, if available, and in case if not available, only show English tool name and not the Portuguese tool name. Most mx tools names are already translated to both Brazilian-Portuguese and Portuguese.
So I guess the fixed mx-tools will show up shortly within the repos.

[marcelocripe]

With a special rule for Brazilian Portuguese to either show the Brazilian-Portuguese tool name, if available, and in case if not available, only show English tool name and not Portuguese tool name.

Dear Fehlix,

I believe the correct thing is, if there is no translation available for 4-letter (or more-letter) languages then the 2-letter language translation will be displayed. Between displaying English and European Portuguese, European Portuguese is still preferable to having no translation.

For example:

If the operating system is started with the fr_BE language, but any program does not have the .mo file for the fr_BE language, then the program should display the fr language.

Did you understand the logic?

- - - - -

With a special rule for Brazilian Portuguese to either show the Brazilian-Portuguese translated tool name, if available, and in case if not available, only show English tool name and not the Portuguese tool name.

Caro Fehlix,

Eu acredito que o correto seja, se não houver tradução disponível para idiomas de 4 letras (ou de mais letras) que seja exibido a tradução do idioma de 2 letras. Entre exibir o idioma Inglês e o Português Europeu, o Português Europeu ainda é preferível do que não ter tradução.

Por exemplo:

Se sistema operacional for iniciado com o idioma fr_BE, mas um programa qualquer não possuir arquivo o arquivo .mo para o idioma fr_BE, então o programa deve exibir o idioma fr.

Você entendeu a lógica?

[fehlix]

With a special rule for Brazilian Portuguese to either show the Brazilian-Portuguese tool name, if available, and in case if not available, only show English tool name and not Portuguese tool name.

Dear Fehlix,

I believe the correct thing is, if there is no translation available for 4-letter (or more-letter) languages then the 2-letter language translation will be displayed. Between displaying English and European Portuguese, European Portuguese is still preferable to having no translation.

For example:

If the operating system is started with the fr_BE language, but any program does not have the .mo file for the fr_BE language, then the program should display the fr language.

Did you understand the logic?

@marcelocripe, thanks for clarifications. Yes I understand.
The system will display translated strings the way you described it.
And good, we won't need any special rule within "MX Tools" for Brazilian Portuguese [pt_BR] and European Portuguese [pt_PT]
language handling. Currently this rule won't do anything anyway, so we can remove it.

After latest update of mx-tools all names and comments are displayed translated for all languages/locale according to the above mentioned logic.
Here the mx-tools in pt_BR:

mx-tools_pt_BR.jpg

And here mx-tools in pt_PT:

mx-tools_pt_PT.jpg

For mx-tools we have about 32 displayed tools and nearly all do have translations for both pt_BR and pt_PT.
There seem to be only 5 exceptions, which appear to have no translations for either pt_BR and pt_PT/pt:

* Chroot Rescue Scan
* Job Scheduler
* About MX Linux
* Bash Config
* MX Tour

And we seem to have one exceptions with "MX Snapshot" which does have "translations" line for pt_BR - but untranslated
and a [pt] translated line.

Name[pt_BR]=MX Snapshot
Name[pt]=MX-Criar Imagem ISO

So in the case of "MX Snapshot" the above logic shows "untranslated" existing "Name[pt_BR]" but it displays translated for pt_PT.
So I guess next translation refresh with new translations from transifex might add missing translations - or if not, someone has to adjust the corresponding desktop files accordingly.
+++EDIT+++
@Wallon, and yes I've tested mx-tools to display available localization
in French for those locale:
fr_BE.UTF-8 - French locale for Belgium
fr_CA.UTF-8 - French locale for Canada
fr_CH.UTF-8 - French locale for Switzerland
fr_FR.UTF-8 - French locale for France
fr_LU.UTF-8 - French locale for Luxemburg

mx-tools_fr_BE.jpg

with the similar comment as above for Portuguese, that some tools missing localized display names.