Dedoimedo on MXPI

[Somewhat Reticent]

thinkpadmx "… devs here have done a superb job on MX …" - Amen. (That's why they're )

dolphin_oracle "I read this as more of him lamenting … a problem he thinks … the linux ecosystem has …" - exactly, it's one of his favorite soapbox talking points, MXPI being just the chosen example for another article.
…
dreamer "Until we have universal Linux packaging that can match Windows packaging" - or better (not impossible), but that's quite a challenge. So many tails want to wag the dog, and insert layers of "platform/DE/..." disruption.

As several here have noted, there may be room for improvement of MXPI, the MX Package Installer.
(switching to pedantic hat)
The challenge of UI is to inform (and sometimes educate) the user - the more accurately and completely, the better.
For example, when using terminal as root, it helps to change the terminal appearance, as a reminder.
In using MXPI (or any package/app "store"), perhaps switching to Testing should likewise start with a notice (perhaps a longer first-time version congratulating the user on their Bold and Fearless choice, a note that the MX TEST repo is activated Temporarily, and offering a link to Feedback Guidelines?), and involve at least a change in appearance that gently but firmly reminds the user of the difference - without greatly reducing readability, of course.
(Nobody said this would be conveniently easy.)

[malspa]

There is a large part of the population that prefers bling over substance aka form over function, but I doubt that many of them would venture away from Apple or Microsoft products.

So why should the dev team spend their limited time to try to cater to them?

^this

[richb]

We certainly can vigorously disagree with Dedoimedo on specific points he makes. But in general over the last couple of years he has been very complimentary to MX. It is the human condition at times to focus on the negative. Let us try to remember all the positive comments he has made about MX. Using MX Linux I have access to Discover, the fancy "store" but most often use MXPI and Synaptic. That is my choice . But I do understand that others may prefer the "fancy".
As far as MXPI opening the system to breakage, I can thoroughly disagree with that without totally condemning him.

[malspa]

Yep. Dedoimedo can be very critical even when it's a distro he likes and uses. He does seem to like MX. Another example, latest review: https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/kub ... rsute.html

And he uses Kubuntu. By the way, I like Kubuntu, too, but like Dedoimedo I prefer to stick with the LTS releases.

[antiX-Dave]

Perhaps I am stepping a bit far into making a greater workload, but thought this may be worth mentioning for consideration at least.
Could a page on the website be added similar to the wiki where users can submit programs, vote for programs, and consider different programs with other users?

This could give the packaging team a good idea of what programs people would like to see.
It would give a quick list that could be referenced when making the popular applications tab in mx package installer.
Also through the votes you would have a metric that could be shown in mx package installer as to "star rating" / popularity reference. (also icons or whatever other data is in the webpage). Similarly you could have a link to the appropriate webpage using mx-viewer for more information and other peoples thoughts on the program.
A help / search more button or menu item could be added to the package installer to reference this website. Then if a program is popular (according to the user) but is not found because it cannot be in the repo / package installer for licensing reasons or it is simply not compatible (sysv vs systemd) or what not this could be explained in the webpage.
etc.

The testing tab could be hidden unless checked off in a drop menu or something; but I thought the whole idea of adding the testing tab was to make people more aware of the programs that need testing and make it easy for them to do so.

[m_pav]

To my way of thinking, and I may be a little "special" here, a package installer needs to be just what it's name says it does. I truly can not stand any of the "stores" I have seen and I will avoid them at all costs. There is one I can not avoid, Googles Play store and when I use it, I grab what I want and get out very quickly, I have no time in my life to be bombarded with advertising, junkware and useless "opinions" all too often offered by those with little to no knowledge.

Can we make MXPI a little better? of course, there's always room for improvement, but at what cost? Deidemodo lamented about losing all selections when crossing over to a new tab, but in doing so, he simply missed, forgot or neglected to say while standing on his long-time soap-box that enabling that feature is the exact potential nightmare he is speaking of because additional upstream (and incompatible with each other) repos will have been enabled, therefore making it inevitable an operator will be assembling a frankendebian without even knowing it. To this, my response is an emphatic and resounding NO !

How could this issue be overcome? Maybe a session only volatile / non-volatile "cookie" that offers to hold a users selections within a tab that is populated only if the operator selects another tab without first performing an action on existing selections within a tab. Volatile in the sense the cookie is cleared/removed on exit, irrespective of whether an action has taken place and non-volatile in that it records data in real time that can be parsed and actioned on return to a tab, but only within an single session.

[dreamer]

Regarding applications I think both Synaptic and MXPI are semi-geeky and I wouldn't want them to change. They serve slightly different purposes and I think they complement each other well. I use Synaptic for basic updates and software install/uninstall. I use MXPI for popular applications and the test repo.

Anything related to voting, community/comments etc. I wouldn't want in MXPI. I want MXPI to be clean. I think it's one of its strengths.

I haven't used Discover, but the UI looks pretty nice. This seems like an application suited for casual users where votes and comments may be a helpful factor.

I have the impression that MX-21 will be released before December so I assume remaining work is mostly about trying to achieve MX-19 quality (which is a pretty high bar) with some updates/integration to MX apps.

Just like Dedoimedo I like some things from Ubuntu/Mint, but I wouldn't necessarily think it would be a good idea to work on them.

Dedoimedo is still employed as a technical writer by Canonical and he is writing on the Snap blog. So now I remember why he seldom mentions software availability in his reviews (which isn't great in Ubuntu without PPAs). However, if you accept Snap format and Canonical Store and connect Snap to Discover then you might not need additional repos/PPAs. For "consumers" it might not be a bad idea and I think this is the perspective Dedoimedo has in his reviews.

[Eadwine Rose]

MXPI, losing selections when switching a tab?

I just selected opera for install in popular, switched to another tab, and yes the install button then greys out. But as soon as I switch back to the popular tab it becomes available again and I can click it and install opera.

[m_pav]

D indicated he'd installed other packages from another tab after having made selections from an earlier tab and he expected all package selections from both tabs would be taken care of in 1 action. I've seen this when I was testing a good way back so will vouch for the selections on the first tab to be lost after performing an action on a second tab.

[Eadwine Rose]

Did a bit more testing and indeed the behavior is funny. Checked kmail in popular, then 0ad in stable, went back to popular, found kmail checked, back in stable 0ad not checked.

Checked that again, went to test, checked aldo, went back to stable, 0ad unchecked, went to popular, kmail still checked, back to test, aldo unchecked.