Random guys thoughts on the future of AntiX/MX gnu/Linux.

[richb]

To clarify for new users, It is the position of the Leadership Team to help users with their issues no matter how mundane.

[SwampRabbit]

To clarify for new users, It is the position of the Leadership Team to help users with their issues no matter how mundane.

100% it is.

Where did that quote even come from?

[anixer]

Oops, update ... about @Stevo, he's experiencing issues with being able to hibernate a given system w/o systemd, in kernel 5.4.x ... not boot ( my bad.) More power oddities, no worries but still wanted to clarify as in gnu/nix the details can be important or matter. I don't work for Redhat folks, nobody pays me to come to xyz-distro's forums and try to trick anyone into using whichever piece of software in preference to any others. Junk I'm babbling about here is only honest effort to get discussion started on a topic, that's it. Also noted yep, have/will devote effort to learning about systemd, what I can do as a desktop nixer to optimize or control the thing. I don't have an "I <heart> systemd" coffee mug or t-shirt. Learning about it is for my own sake, cause like it or not, it's here to stay and has to be dealt with to whatever extent.

Upstream doesn't stop and say, hey random anixer dude, what do you think we should do about init in gnu/Linux ? Errrrrr, I don't friggin know, if Redhat and similar ever did waste their time asking me, we'd all be in real trouble if they were dumb enough to have to do that. You folks would be begging for systemd then. :D

@ForWIW, funny fricken icon, the guy with a bag on head. I want one like that, only with the person having a bunch of tinfoil wrapped around their head. Would be the perfect forum icon to use in any of these types of threads, anything systemd related, any of the topics which trigger the Corp space aliens are trying to take over my personal computer type threads. < Only with a roll of tinfoil wrapped around the face/head. You'll never take my computer alive, ya corp alien bastids !!!

[anixer]

Snagged from another thread and relocated here. Really at this pt, sick of the word systemd right now. :D It's my own post, so hope that's okay.

<Pointless 2 cents>

Systemd and assoc packages I tend to keep updated on anything Debian gnu/Linux stable. Very least via backports after some digging around, often enough take it a step further and pin it or etc from unstable. This thread sparked curiosity so went ahead and installed 244-3 from unstable. Forever now been mentioning with something like the init I do want newer versions of it. Easy enough to do for whomever wants to learn about it and take any precautions, any risks or whatever else associated with such. Though yeah I want newer of it, want whatever fixes, whatever improvements or added features newer versions bring as the thing gets developed.

Of course as with anything, newer doesn't guarantee better, can introduce issues and bugs not found in earlier versions too. Yeppers known bugs in newer versions tend to have been squashed. Though in general for something like my OS's init packages I want newish. So just went ahead and installed 244-3 to a Stretch install and yeppers, things are running fine, can always downgrade it if necessary blahblah. As for systemd-shim, BAD IDEA in my view, in general anyway but per usual really don't care what other nixers do to/with their software anyway. Would have to invest time and effort into looking over how/what a given shim type thingy is even doing. The people assoc with the project too. In general installing dummy packages etc to attempt to trick other software into having it's depends satisfied is certainly to be viewed as a dirty hack. Though done competently, by someone with the know how, can obviously work too. :)

</pointless 2 cents.>

Lmao, yeah, yeah, yeah I'm a troll and/or bot from upstream. YOU PEEPS WILL USE SYSTEMD ... AND YOU'LL BE GRATEFUL FOR THE PRIVILEGE !!!! Resistance is futile, we did not travel light years to take over your personal computers for nuttin buddy ! OBEY !!!! :P

[anixer]

^ Hey appreciate the post. Much of that not wanting to elaborate on, comes to pulse/audio again, it's never caused me a single issue anyway. So I didn't waste any time swimming against the current/upstream. Do occasionally look over the alternatives and if pressed could no doubt figure out how to set them up. Doesn't matter if XYZ browser has it's heart set on pulse, there are effective work-arounds when the situation is understood well enough. I'm not doing it, it's just another example of people resisting something w/o any real degree of understanding anyway.

Yeppers, do like mpv just in general. Cool piece of software, it's open source and gnu/Linux, so cool software is not a problem, errrr unless you bother listening to some of the many clueless types, they'll gripe all dy long about oh, there's too many choices, oh whaaaaa, do "we" (whoever this we thing is they refer to.) really need 30 file-managers, windows manager, desktops, text-editors add endless stupid stuff here. For what gives, I'm just in general far less tolerant of people, folks who get to use AWESOME software, zero cost, never really bother learning much about it either but constantly want to argue or whine about it, debate with people who have spent considerable time/effort/energy so I(they) do know what's what. Yep ... you're just a troll, or blahblahblah. whatever nonsense folks with nothing valid, no knowledge, skill or experience to add to anything tend to blather on about. So yeppers, tend to get harsh with folks much more quickly than in times past. Also have very lil hesitation in liberal use of a forums ignore feature. :D Seen xyz-type person many times before, know they're only going to annoy me and get on my nerves, better error on the side of caution. IGNORE, add to foe, yep ... confirm. It's shoot/ignore first, ask questions later now for me.

Anyway, stupid rant, thanks for posting ForWIW. Do agree with much of what you'd pointed out in that post. It's good to see people who think outside the box, sheesh nowadays it's good to see some people still think at all. :)

[anixer]

^ Hey fellow nixer, that is awesome, you're my kind of peeps. No worries on off-topic in 9 or so years of gnu/Nix, many the forum, almost never, EVER seen a single thread about anything that doesn't jump the tracks really quickly and go sailing off into general discussion about whatever else. :D Sometimes spent(have spent) so much time in forums, to the point I/someone may need to stop and say hey, I might have a problem here. May need a gnu/Nix forum addiction ... a 12 step program or something.

Don't mind sharing things I've learned at all. It's who with, under what circumstances though. I retain the right to disallow/refuse service to whomever, for whatever reasons. No shirt(no basic info), no shoes/common sense ... no service or sharing with those types of people. You're surely very familiar with what I'm talking-typing about, help vamps, clueless people who think they know everything. Since they already know everything, no reason to bother learning, no need for experience etc. Anyway ... now I'm ranting in an offtopic fashion, in a thread in which I'd been pointlessly ranting about systemd. LOL ... oh well, sue me. :D

Either way ForWIW, thanks for your insights/input in this thread. Is appreciated for real.

[anixer]

Ah ... supposed to help anyone, any circumstances, that's the admin's policy, what about the faqs, the notice saying "READ THIS", provide hardware/software info with posts in BOLD ? Lol ... mostly being a dork but common courtesy and decency isn't something it's outrageous to expect and what's the point in having and advertising a common accepted code of conduct and rules if nobody bothers adhering to them, nobody bothers enforcing them ? You reward someone for acting in a craptastic and bs-manner, it's only reinforcing that type of unacceptable behavior. It will have an impact long term on a given community too. While hey, actually this forum is mature in that yep, post info when asking for help is front and center. People see it no doubt, they just don't bother reading it or following what's advised.

That also hurts them as endusers in the long run, shrugs. Anyway, how about this, or posting a link to the read me and forum faqs ? The Debian or any MX wiki ? Is that considered huggy, helpy and politically correcty enough ?

No worries, mostly just wanted to post that link to LMGTFY = let me google that for you. That never gets old or ceases being funny as hades. :D

[skidoo]

As for systemd-shim, BAD IDEA in my view, in general anyway but [blahblahblah]
Would have to invest time and effort into looking over how/what a given shim type thingy is even doing. The people assoc with the project too.

Earlier in the topic, someone has already provide a link to the source code.
If you are interested in listening (learning) rather than just talktaktalking, follow the provided link. Go, read through (skim) the code. Yeppers, I respect that you self-identify as being a "random guy", not a coder, but the entire code of the "shim" component is a quick read ~~ tip: jump straight to the /src page. Everything above or outside that project subdirectory is just wrapping paper (packaging and installation).
.
My takaway, after reading the code was:
Dang, it's amazingly small, and the shimming solution is so simple that I'm embarrassed that I wasn't able to envision how to accomplish it. Holy crow, after so much handwringing across distros throughout the linux community... when MX Linux stepped up an posted a $$$ bounty, thankfully someone smarter than me was motivated to, lickety-split, craft a shimming solution. SomeONE, one person coded a working solution (not "people assoc blablah" as you have, ignorantly, implied). I'll suggest that you should now "invest time and effort into looking over" the shoulders of all the self-proclaimed geniuses, the upstream gatekeepers, who had collectively failed to achieve a workable solution.

In general installing dummy packages etc to attempt to trick other software into having it's depends satisfied is certainly to be viewed as a dirty hack. Though done competently, by someone with the know how, can obviously work too. :)
let's just overlook the talkin' out both sides yer mouth and tack on a smiley part, eh

Doggie has no idea what it's yipping about but it sure does love to yip.
Bullpuckey. And the horse you rode in on.

I don't need to reach very far to grab a case in point:

topic, dated Dec 4, 2019:[SOLVED] Libreoffice does depend on firefox – how to remove firefox
takeaway points:
-- is not a "dirty hack". In fact, debian provides a utility to facilitate this task.
-- is not reserved for use by "someone(s) with the know how"

[richb]

Topic closed, IT has run its course.