Rage against the systemd 'machine'

[BitJam]

Humor not withstanding; hopefully you can see, in this thread, there is a lot of fear, concern, mis-understanding, confusion, even 'grief'.

To my mind these are issues worth time, consideration, and discussion. This type of discussion tends to build a more informed and committed community.

The devs here are very user-centric. They try to do what is best for the most number of people/users. That, of course, includes letting people know when there is a major change of course. Since we have not heard that yet, they must still be trying to avoid having to make Sophie's Choice.

Therefore, it's possible that threads like this will cause more fear, concern, mis-understanding, confusion, and even grief than is necessary. I'm not a big fan of telling people to sit back and trust authority figures. But neither am I a fan of needlessly worrying about something in the future that may not come to pass. I'm not saying this thread is a bad idea, I'm saying there is a limit to how much information is available now.

A coward dies a thousand times before his death, but the valiant taste of death but once.

-- William Shakespeare (The Tragedy of Julius Caesar)

[manyroads]

@BitJam I do not disagree. I would add the notion that centralizing the systemd discussion, concerns, and getting answers from knowledgeable people like @Dolphin_Oracle, @Head_on_a_Stick, @rasat, yourself and others is useful. It helps ensure that folks can ask their questions and get the best answers available (to the best of each respondent's ability/ knowledge). The messages (questions & answers) can be shared simply & directly. Having said that, if this thread becomes a "pity-party" or an exercise in whining, I will be first to request that the Moderators shut it down.

Like you, I believe there is no real cause for worry. There are many options; choosing the best is a challenge, always. We have an excellent & skilled team on the job (on both antiX & MX). And in the end, whatever choice is made, or direction is taken, does little more than move us to the next set of challenges.

[asqwerth]

I'm just confused why people keep thinking MX has to move to Devuan repos in order to remain systemd-free or to run sysV as init, when antiX is essentially what MX is based on.

[BitJam]

I would add the notion that centralizing the systemd discussion, concerns, and getting answers from knowledgeable people like @Dolphin_Oracle, @Head_on_a_Stick, @rasat, yourself and others is useful. It helps ensure that folks can ask their questions and get the best answers available (to the best of each respondent's ability/ knowledge).

+1

OTOH, IMO (this is not an official statement, I'm not speaking for the dev team) the answer to the crucial questions is: we don't know for sure but we're doing our best and we plan to do what it is best for the most people.

[dolphin_oracle]

there is an effort to retool the systemd-shim. but I don't know how real it is. I'm not knocking the effort, I just don't know enough about the problem with the systemd-shim setup to evaluate.

[manyroads]

I'm just confused why people keep thinking MX has to move to Devuan repos in order to remain systemd-free or to run sysV as init, when antiX is essentially what MX is based on.

I don't believe ppeople think that Devuan is the only way to do things, or even necessarily the best way. I think @rasat is simply testing the waters to demonstrate whether, or not, Devuan is viable and can play nice with MX 'tools'. But, that's just my guess.

@rasat has asked me if it were possible to run the Gnome DE on antiX (he's a Gnome guy, I think.) I told him I'd give it a whirl; I'll set up a quick snapshot that will have both KDE & Gnome on the same antiX19 base. Sadly, I won't be able to do much with the DEs; I'm unfamiliar with both. It's pretty safe to say that a basic -vanilla version of each ought to work. He can carry-on from there.

My interest is actually with xfce & openbox. I'll release them together on a single antiX19 snapshot as soon as I get them operational (this week). My thinking is that no matter what happens in the MX side of the house, there will be a population of people interested in axfce & openbox on antiX. Although, I'm okay if I'm the only one.

[anticapitalista]

@rasat has asked me if it were possible to run the Gnome DE on antiX (he's a Gnome guy, I think.) I told him I'd give it a whirl; I'll set up a quick snapshot that will have both KDE & Gnome on the same antiX19 base.

Once we get to the next alpha/beta, the answer is yes.

[manyroads]

@rasat has asked me if it were possible to run the Gnome DE on antiX (he's a Gnome guy, I think.) I told him I'd give it a whirl; I'll set up a quick snapshot that will have both KDE & Gnome on the same antiX19 base.

Once we get to the next alpha/beta, the answer is yes.

Great then I'll hold off for a bit... I just found a disturbing article that says effect 3.8 Gnome will require systemd. Personally I don't use it (systemd or Gnome). But it seems a bad requirement. Torvalds agrees.

This is all over my head... see: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Systemd/In ... om_scratch

[Head_on_a_Stick]

@rasat has asked me if it were possible to run the Gnome DE

OpenBSD can run GNOME, no systemd there (and there never will be).

[manyroads]

@rasat has asked me if it were possible to run the Gnome DE

OpenBSD can run GNOME, no systemd there (and there never will be).

The requirement for it in v 3.8 seems bizarre. However, I'll wait for the release @anticapitalista mentioned. I can click a button to do an install. :lipsrsealed: The Gentoo description seems daunting, confusing... It's tough getting old.