Dedoimedo review of MX-18

[manyroads]

I think there are some beautiful implementations of MX shown here in the forums (in the showcase thread). Perhaps we could find a way to allow new users to select from some of those... perhaps downloading from the web so we don't make the install too fat.

[tomec]

I agree with BitJam, if someone offers constructive criticism then it should be considered.

From the article:

I also wanted to use the global menu (topmenu) plugin for Xfce, as I've shown you in my tutorial, but I hit a whole slew of problems there. The plugin did nothing, and only after making a whole bunch of environment changes did it run. I actually used a thread on MX Linux forums to do this.

Here's the thread viewtopic.php?t=46164

Criticism with a suggested solution.

That's useful.

Maybe he should go for vala-panel-appmenu; I used to put it on the top panel for some time on MATE (Ubuntu repo) and it worked out of the box. It's Xfce-compatible as well.

[dreamer]

Dedoimedo is sensitive about the live session and that the live session should save changes made. I think this is an odd opinion. Most people "play" in live-mode before installing. Then when they install they expect the distro to be in mint (untouched) condition.

So if live changes are to be saved, there should be a dialog asking if you want those changes to carry over to the installation. From a support perspective it's important to know that people start with a fresh installation.

[BitJam]

Dedoimedo is sensitive about the live session and that the live session should save changes made. I think this is an odd opinion. Most people "play" in live-mode before installing. Then when they install they expect the distro to be in mint (untouched) condition.

So if live changes are to be saved, there should be a dialog asking if you want those changes to carry over to the installation. From a support perspective it's important to know that people start with a fresh installation.

We do all of that and more: the Most Extensive Live-usb on the Planet!

In the installer you have the choice of a fresh install or saving your changes from the live system. IMO, from a support perspective it is easier for us if people copy over their working live system. We've had problems in the past of the live system working but the installed system failing. The live system will often make changes tuned for your particular hardware. If these changes aren't carried over then the installed system may not boot or work properly. The idea is that since the live system booted, the safest default is to use the same settings the live system used for the installed system. Since we implemented this idea the number of reports of certain types of problems have plummeted.

When we make a snapshot, all of these changes made by the live system and copied over to the installed system are undone so a live-usb made from the iso you created from snapshot is in "pristine" condition as far as running live is concerned. Likewise, even if you use root persistence or remaster on a live-usb, we save machine specific changes separately for each machine you run on.

We support both snapshots and live-usb remasters. From a support perspective it makes little difference to us if changes were made before or after the install. You can go from a live system to an installed system back to a live system and so on, making changes all along the way. I don't know of any other distro that is designed to do this as well as we do it.

[malspa]

We've had problems in the past of the live system working but the installed system failing. The live system will often make changes tuned for your particular hardware. If these changes aren't carried over then the installed system may not boot or work properly. The idea is that since the live system booted, the safest default is to use the same settings the live system used for the installed system. Since we implemented this idea the number of reports of certain types of problems have plummeted.

Wow, that's surprising to me -- I thought this sort of problem must be quite rare.

[asqwerth]

Dedoimedo is sensitive about the live session and that the live session should save changes made. I think this is an odd opinion. Most people "play" in live-mode before installing. Then when they install they expect the distro to be in mint (untouched) condition.

So if live changes are to be saved, there should be a dialog asking if you want those changes to carry over to the installation. From a support perspective it's important to know that people start with a fresh installation.

I think his main issue was that his network settings and password was not carried over to his installed MX18, when it did in his tests and reviews of earlier releases. I seem to recall him being impressed in an earlier review that his wifi connection carried over after install so he didn't need to set up his password again.

If so, then that is possibly a regression so needs to be checked out.

Similarly with his report about Clementine not being able to play his phone media, while VLC had no issues. I think what he's saying is that it was fine in an earlier release but now not working in MX18.

Top-menu plugin - could the main issue be that it's a gtk3 plugin and we are still on gtk2 XFCE panel? Did something change recently in the development of the plugin? The Forum thread he linked to has someone saying it doesn't work now, but it did in MX17. So again the concern is another possible regression, unless some update to the plugin itself is the problem.


Aesthetics which are XFCE-specific issues, we can't do too much about it. I wouldn't bother too much about it. Ditto the complaint about how Thunar works.


But issues that appear to be regressions from MX17 are of concern and should be checked on.

[GerardV]

Here's the thread viewtopic.php?t=46164

Criticism with a suggested solution.

Except it did not work on my MX18 install

[Redacted]

But issues that appear to be regressions from MX17 are of concern and should be checked on.

I've read his articles for years. What got me started with him, besides his being a member of a security forum that I was a member of long ago, was his ranting against regressions in Linux distros.
I don't know about these particular ones in MX, but if you look at the Linux world in general, he has a strong point.

[dolphin_oracle]

I've avoided this thread because I don't generally like to publicly comment on reviewer article content, but I'll respond to these 2 items from mx users.

I think his main issue was that his network settings and password was not carried over to his installed MX18, when it did in his tests and reviews of earlier releases. I seem to recall him being impressed in an earlier review that his wifi connection carried over after install so he didn't need to set up his password again.

If so, then that is possibly a regression so needs to be checked out.

Yes and no.

debian's implementation of network-manager defaults to only allowing the user that creates the network connection to connect to it later. since our live-USB uses the "demo" account and an installed system is not likely to have a "demo" account, the user isn't allowed to connect, by default. the connection settings themselves do copy over.

the solution is what ubuntu does...default to allowing "all users" to connect to a defined wifi connection. If you do this manually on a live system and then install, the installed system will connect upon reboot.

This is not actually a regression, its exactly the same since mx15.

Dedoimedo is sensitive about the live session and that the live session should save changes made. I think this is an odd opinion. Most people "play" in live-mode before installing. Then when they install they expect the distro to be in mint (untouched) condition.

So if live changes are to be saved, there should be a dialog asking if you want those changes to carry over to the installation. From a support perspective it's important to know that people start with a fresh installation.

the user already has to specify that live home folder changes will be saved, its not automatic, and such I don't feel a dialog is necessary in that case. I'm glad he likes the option though.

[asqwerth]

I've avoided this thread because I don't generally like to publicly comment on reviewer article content, but I'll respond to these 2 items from mx users.

I think his main issue was that his network settings and password was not carried over to his installed MX18, when it did in his tests and reviews of earlier releases. I seem to recall him being impressed in an earlier review that his wifi connection carried over after install so he didn't need to set up his password again.

If so, then that is possibly a regression so needs to be checked out.

Yes and no.

debian's implementation of network-manager defaults to only allowing the user that creates the network connection to connect to it later. since our live-USB uses the "demo" account and an installed system is not likely to have a "demo" account, the user isn't allowed to connect, by default. the connection settings themselves do copy over.

the solution is what ubuntu does...default to allowing "all users" to connect to a defined wifi connection. If you do this manually on a live system and then install, the installed system will connect upon reboot.

This is not actually a regression, its exactly the same since mx15. ....

Hmm, re-reading his review and searching through his older reviews, I think he might be saying that when he saved the live session settings previously, the connection settings used to be copied over and now it doesn't, not that the installed system used to automatically connect to the saved network settings.

I'm not so sure though.

MX18 comments:

...However, in the installed desktop, my Wireless network wasn't preserved!

MX15 comments on same thing:

...my live session data was saved, including network config, even the failed Bluetooth games, all my screenshots and downloads, my panel configurations, everything.

https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/mx-15.html