vim.tiny [Solved]

[Butters]

Greetings,

I was watching a youtube video on "vim":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlR5gYd6um0

That is when I discovered that some of the commands that the host was demonstrating were not working when I ran vim.
I following the links that both "vi" and "vim" brought me to, and they both ultimately ended up at /usr/bin/vim.tiny

Also, "apt search vim" resulted in printing lines that read:
vim-tiny/oldstable,now 2:8.0.0197-4+deb9u3 amd64 [installed]
Vi IMproved - enhanced vi editor - compact version
-- as well as --
vim/oldstable 2:8.0.0197-4+deb9u3 amd64
Vi IMproved - enhanced vi editor

So my conclusion is that this distribution of MX Linux:
$ uname -a
Linux mx 4.19.0-5-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.19.37-2~mx17+1 (2019-05-15) x86_64 GNU/Linux
... comes with vim.tiny, as a choice made by the maintainers of the MX Linux distribution.

If my assessment is correct, then I have three questions:
1) Why was "vim.tiny" chosen over "vim"?
2) What is the difference between "vim.tiny" and "vim"?
3) If I choose to install "vim", should I first uninstall "vim.tiny"?

The folks that put this distribution together did an amazing job. So I do not want to second-guess their decisions. But I would like to have the features I saw being used in the youtube video. So before tinkering with what came with the distribution, I thought I would first ask the above questions.

Thank you.

[manyroads]

Perhaps you should simply install the version of vim you wish to use. I use NeoVim myself and emacs (I know it's not a vim variant but emacs hurts my head less....) As for uninstall... do what makes you happiest.

[wurthrk]

My understanding is that the vim.tiny is a stripped down version of vim closer in functionality to vi than vim. It's a Debian thing, not MX.

[figueroa]

Yes, purge vim.tiny and install the full vim. You won't be sorry.

Added: The reason it's installed instead of the full vim is because it's TINY, and most users wont' have anything to do with it anyway. But, from a power VI user going way back, vim.tiny is lame to the point of being broken. Otherwise, for one who finds vi/vim handy for minor screen editing, it works, but there is a lot it won't do.

[Butters]

Yes, purge vim.tiny and install the full vim. You won't be sorry.

Added: The reason it's installed instead of the full vim is because it's TINY, and most users wont' have anything to do with it anyway. But, from a power VI user going way back, vim.tiny is lame to the point of being broken. Otherwise, for one who finds vi/vim handy for minor screen editing, it works, but there is a lot it won't do.

I learned "vi" at an old job, where they ran NetBSD.
I know my way around "vi" (or vim). I am not an expert. But I am not bad.

Based on your comment "and most users wont have anything to do with it anyway", is there a better text editor?
nano seems to be popular. But it reminds me of Windows notepad. I do not like nano.

Is there a powerful text editor that I should consider as a vim replacement?


Thank you.

[fehlix]

Is there a powerful text editor that I should consider as a vim replacement?

not sure how a powerfull text editor is defined. You could try emacs, which is powerfull.
I use fairly often mcedit part of mc, which comes preinstalled on MX Linux.

[figueroa]

Is there a powerful text editor that I should consider as a vim replacement?

Thank you.

In my opinion, no, vi/vim rules. Nano is reminiscent of the old DOS edit program. It holds your hand through the editing of text file, as do most GUI text editors like mousepad, leafpad, featherpad. I do use a GUI text editor as a companion to vim, mainly to open text files from the desktop, and I prefer leafpad because it is competent, simple, small, fast and doesn't try to add features that might complicate it's primary purpose. Nano is vital to the ecosystem because almost anybody can use it from the commandline without instruction or a user guide. I never uninstall nano. I just never use it.

To use vim and benefit from its utility and power, one has to invest sufficient time to learn it's conventions, but once those are learned it is powerful and efficient. The user can do the editing of files from simple text files to program source code and the fingers never need to leave the keyboard to reach for a mouse. Also, vim is powerfully extended with plugins. For example, with the gnupg.vim plugin one can easily and securely edit gpg encrypted text files on the fly. Add a spelling dictionary, and vim will also do your spell checking.

vi/vim is like ex, the most rudimentary line oriented, core Unix text editor, but extended for full screen editing on a terminal versus working from a line printier. vim powerfully extends what began as vi (vim = vi improved). This is the standard place to get started: https://www.vim.org/ but there are abundant other places with tutorials and cheat sheets (highly recommend cheat sheets to help users learn commands).

I got started becoming a power user of vi through a book, "Unix Primer Plus," out of print of course, because I needed to master vi for editing hundreds of text files which were used as input for database query. But, any on-line tutorial should be enough to get one started. From editing database input files, I graduated slowly to shell scripts and even some rudimentary programming (mostly program editing). My efforts to learn the editor have been paid back many times over by the time saved using vi and vim.

gvim is an interesting time waster, but I think some people might find gvim helpful to get them started because of the comfort that many people have working within the GUI, but in practice it slows down the editing process.

I'm a big fan, but you probably couldn't tell. Of course, your mileage may vary.

See cartoon at: https://www.vim.org/about.php (Open this in a new window or tab so you don't lose your place.)

To its credit, Emacs is extraordinarly powerful but arcane. Its use is strongly advocated by its core users. I tried it, but couldn't get hooked.

[baldyeti]

I know my way around "vi" (or vim). I am not an expert. But I am not bad.

Based on your comment "and most users wont have anything to do with it anyway", is there a better text editor?

Not really ! vi/vim is a PITA to learn, granted, but if you are already past the initial hurdles, it is well worth persevering.

The Practical Vim book is amazing, its author also has a series of tips available on youtube.

Even plain "classic" vi is surprisingly powerful. Alan Zintz once wrote an advanced tutorial that i cannot find back in its original form but whose 4 first parts (out of 9) have been updated for vim.

When working in graphical mode, i wouldn't be as harsh as figueroa with gvim (i have a bash alias to launch it from a terminal instead of text-mode vim, works fine for me).

Geany which is included by default in MX is not bad either.

[Adrian]

I started to use vim exclusively because once you learn it it makes editing much more efficient, one trick after you learn the basics is to remove nano and this way be forced to imerse yourself in vim.
Also make sure ~/.vimrc is shared between your computers (either share it with a share file system: Dropbox, Syncthing, or put it somewhere on github) once you start to add custom stuff to it, it's useful to have your configuration propagated to all the computers you use (work, home, VM, etc)

[m_frank]

Is there a powerful text editor that I should consider as a vim replacement?

Thank you.

In my opinion, no, vi/vim rules. Nano is reminiscent of the old DOS edit program. It holds your hand through the editing of text file, as do most GUI text editors like mousepad, leafpad, featherpad. I do use a GUI text editor as a companion to vim, mainly to open text files from the desktop, and I prefer leafpad because it is competent, simple, small, fast and doesn't try to add features that might complicate it's primary purpose. Nano is vital to the ecosystem because almost anybody can use it from the commandline without instruction or a user guide. I never uninstall nano. I just never use it.

To use vim and benefit from its utility and power, one has to invest sufficient time to learn it's conventions, but once those are learned it is powerful and efficient. The user can do the editing of files from simple text files to program source code and the fingers never need to leave the keyboard to reach for a mouse. ...

... My efforts to learn the editor have been paid back many times over by the time saved using vi and vim.

gvim is an interesting time waster, ... in practice it slows down the editing process.

I'm a big fan, but you probably couldn't tell. Of course, your mileage may vary.
...

To its credit, Emacs is extraordinarly powerful but arcane. Its use is strongly advocated by its core users. I tried it, but couldn't get hooked.

• vi/vim rules!
• nano annoys me when I accidentally land in it, because I forgot to tune the alternatives.
• vim in a long terminal window, preferably 60 rows or more.
• In order to use emacs you need to be a piano player, and I learned on the trumpet.